Antoninus Pius, a yellow toned Sestertius?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by cmezner, Jun 28, 2023.

  1. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Very puzzled because of the color of this sestertius.
    The color doesn't seem right; all the examples I could find are way much darker, e.g.
    https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_R-14269

    Rome, 161 - 162 AD. Posthumous issue, struck under the authority of Marcus Aurelius
    31 x 32 mm; 26.2 g
    RIC III, 1265[aurelius]; Cohen 162;

    Ob.: DIVVS ANTONINVS Antoninus Pius laureate head to right
    Rev.: CONSECRATIO, eagle perched left on globe, head turned to right, S-C.

    Pictures courtesy Heritage


    upload_2023-6-28_21-45-14.png upload_2023-6-28_21-45-25.png

    Please share your sestertius that seem odd or anything relevant:cool:
     
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  3. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    It looks fine to me - what happened, I think, is that it was over-enthusiastically cleaned, stripping away most of the patina/toning. These were made of brass (the Romans called it orichalcum, so the color on the OP is correct, as far as I can tell. Here is Wikipedia on the topic:

    "The brass sestertius typically weighs in the region of 25 to 28 grams, is around 32–34 mm in diameter and about 4 mm thick. The distinction between bronze and brass was important to the Romans. Their name for brass was orichalcum, also spelled aurichalcum (echoing the word for a gold coin, aureus), meaning 'gold-copper', because of its shiny, gold-like appearance when the coins were newly struck (see, for example Pliny the Elder in his Natural History Book 34.4)." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sestertius

    Below is a batch of sestertii in my collection. On the left, a yellow Domitian cleaned down to the metal, much like the OP, with a few stray blotches of patina (it was brown at one time). The Hadrian in the middle is toned, but no patina, I think; you can still see it is brassy. On the right, a green patina on Gordian III. All made of basically the same metal (although the later ones were more coppery and less brassy - impossible to see on the Gordian because of the patina).

    A lot of collectors don't like the overly-cleaned ones, but it does not really bother me (though I prefer patina). I would gladly add the OP to my collection (if the price is right) - it is well struck, with a great portrait and great centering. Hope that helps!

    _3 Sestertii same seller May 2022 (0).jpg
     
  4. Curtis

    Curtis Well-Known Member

    Beautiful! This raises the very interesting topic of "Riverine" surface (occasionally called "Tiber patina," but I can't believe that many are actually still found in the Tiber).

    It's hard to tell from those photos, but this is exactly what they look like when they've been found in water. @Marsyas Mike , I would suspect your "overcleaned" Domitian & Trajan of being ones too.

    Here are some from a recently discovered group of large AEs thrown in a spring in Italy as votive offerings (NOT mine!!):

    2022-09-06_192623407.png
    Source: https://www.thearchaeologist.org/bl...ive-offerings-found-at-etruscan-thermal-baths

    You can also search ACSearch for "riverine" and "tiber patina," but I'm sure it's tempting for a dealer to apply those terms to an overcleaned sestertius, and I'm not sure how to distinguish in every case.

    Here's a Domitian of mine that I do suspect was cleaned (a very long time ago) due to the porosity, which I think should probably be absent on a river patina:

    Domitian Germania Capta Sestertius.png

    That said, these are some of the only "bronze" coins that I think can look pretty good -- even better -- without a classic thick clamshell patina.

    Depending on conditions, I suspect "riverine" brass/coppers can be a bit etched, crystallized. This Hadrian was "yellower" when I bought it >35 years ago, I always wondered if it was actually a "Tiber" (I think I bought it in Italy, c. 1980s). Then about 15 years ago I moved to a humid area and it caught B.D. (obverse 9h), and the fields darkened after I treated it (I finish w/ oxidized colloidal silver mixed with Ren Wax, untraditional, but I've had success): CONSERVATORI-Hadrian AE Sestertius Ex-Europe 1980s ED.png


    For one that definitely was NOT from the Tiber or a hot spring, here's my favorite green clamshell patina (or see dealer photo one or photo two):

    Gordian III Sestertius X6.jpg
     
  5. GinoLR

    GinoLR Well-Known Member

    upload_2023-7-1_14-50-19.png

    sestertii (or dupondii, or semisses) can be yellow...
     
  6. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Thank you all for your great information and pictures of beautiful coins; now I can rest assured :)
     
    Curtis likes this.
  7. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Sestertii must have been initially a very bright brass yellow color when issued by the mint. Because of this brassy composition, as opposed to coins with higher copper content, such as Byzantine bronze coins, the color these Roman bronze coins tend to be towards the yellow side when cleaned.

    Here's a Galba sestertius that has been partially cleaned. The yellow orichalcum surfaces are quite apparent. I really wish this cleaning wasn't done, but we need to cope with the cards that are dealt.

    Galba, orichalcum, sestertius 68-69 AD, Rome. From the Roma E-Sale 86, lot 931.
    RIC I 456
    24.35 grams

    D-Camera Galba orichalcum sestertius 68-69AD Rome RIC I 456 Roma 86 931 24.35g 9-12-21.jpg
     
    Johndakerftw, expat, Dafydd and 3 others like this.
  8. curtislclay

    curtislclay Well-Known Member

  9. curtislclay

    curtislclay Well-Known Member

    I agree with others, the color of your sestertius is quite normal.

    You also managed to snag a rare variety: laureate sestertii of Divus Antoninus Pius are considerably rarer than the standard bare-headed variety!
     
    Curtis and cmezner like this.
  10. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Actually, it was in a lot of five unattributed coins. I like to get multiple lots because it's really fun to try to attribute them :)
     
    curtislclay likes this.
  11. Julius Germanicus

    Julius Germanicus Well-Known Member

    Perfectly fine "Tiber" patina.

    IMG_5575.jpg
     
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