Improving Counterfeits- recent 1811 Half Cent…

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Jack D. Young, Jun 4, 2023.

  1. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    It has been 3 years since I wrote my Coin Week article on a family of fakes based on an 1835 type obverse and 1826 C-1 reverse.

    https://coinweek.com/struck-counterfeit-coins-another-all-in-the-family-half-cent-1835-1826/

    Since then it appears the counterfeiters have improved at least the 1811…

    The double edged sword we talk about is the line between notifying the Hobby/ Collectors and advising the counterfeiters- a main reason I do NOT discuss physical properties of the “coins” in my articles and take some care in several of the public forums I participate in.

    In my article I did show 2 major “tells” seen on every different dated example I showed, the obverse “gash” and reverse “zipper”:

    fake4.jpg

    An “1811” from my original article research (images from Bay listings); the green circle is a die indicator of a genuine 1826 C-1 reverse:

    1811.jpg

    And now the “new” version:

    new combo.jpg

    The obverse is new and no longer matches the original “family” members:

    old-new obv comp.jpg

    Fortunately, it doesn’t exactly match either known 1811 half cent variety either, but certainly closer:

    3 obvs.jpg

    And the reverse is still the 1826 C-1, but without the “zipper”:

    1826 rev comp.jpg

    I consider these to be mid-level deceptive fakes, but they are closing the gap; IMHO ATTRIBUTION continues to be the key to flushing these out, or these will continue to fool some dealers and collectors alike and be sold!

    The seller actually ended his auction through our conversations, and I negotiated a price to add to my research set. Part of our discussion is captured in this:

    updated response.jpg

    Best, Jack.
     
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  3. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Outstanding work Jack.

    The gap in ability between the average collector and the TPG grading a coin is not nearly so great as the gap in ability between the average collector and the TPG authenticating a coin.

    As more time passes, I think the call will be for the TPG's to shift their value proposition from assigning a coin's grade (and therefore its value) to authenticating a coin instead, and to guaranteeing authenticity, but not grade.

    Personally, I've always thought it should be this way, but the market seems to think otherwise.
     
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  4. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your intuitive experience and professionalism @Jack D. Young.
     
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  5. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    And they are at it again!

    This time with a "plated" 1809 that matches the 1811:D...

    listing.jpg rev comp att bad 1811.jpg
     
  6. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    Most of the surviving 1811 half cents are in low grades with problems and generally unattractive. The rarity of the date favors sending them in for authentication, but the grade of most of the coins works against it.

    Here is the obverse of the one of the 1811 half cents I had when I was collecting half cents by die variety. The surfaces and color were really good for the date, but it had a bad rim nick. It would have come back in a "body bag" from the graders when I owned it.

    1811 half cent C-1.jpg
     
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  7. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    Well, a new example; matches mine for the date and same wrong reverse...

    listing.jpg
    Mine on the right:

    to mine obv.jpg

    to mine rev.jpg
     
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  8. J Pineiro

    J Pineiro New Member

    Hello

    I think I have one of these counterfeit. Please help me to send the pictures to the expert to confirm if in fact the one I have is not real.

    Thanks
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 24, 2024
  9. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    You can post it here; probably the quickest!
     
  10. Jim Dale

    Jim Dale Well-Known Member

    I don't take pictures of my coins as of this date. Most of my coins are from my father's collection. My coin is an 1809 Classic Head Half Cent. I'm not sure of the protocol. I don't have a camera nor a microscope to take pictures. I don't sell coins either. My father's collection was from a co-worker. When he found out he didn't have long on this side of the veil, he decided to pass his collection to his best friends. All of his collection was stored in a pickle jar that had been kept in a convenient store. Most of the collection came from entries or stored in the jar. My brother lives in southern California and I live in North Carolina. It was too far for me to go out there to divide the coins. I trust my brother. He is a retired spud and I'm a retired paratrooper from the 82nd. Anyway, it took him about 3 months to prepare an inventory that can be trusted to divided. That was how I got into coins.
    He gave me a copy of his collection and I prepared an inventory to divide. We were both pleased with the inventory. Anyway, That's how I got the Half Cent. One day I will pass a copy of my part of the inventory and you all can tell me how I got my part of the inventory.
     
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