Oceanus... source of all rivers and seas

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by zumbly, Jul 2, 2016.

  1. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Here's a recent pickup that just arrived yesterday, from one of the sales of the Elvira Clain-Stefanelli Collection. Apart from being a delight to look at, it also features a god very infrequently seen on ancient coins - Oceanus.

    In Greek mythology, Oceanus was eldest of the Titans, husband of Tethys, father of all the river gods (the Potamoi) and ocean nymphs (the Okeanides), and before the ascendance of the Olympian deities, the unchallenged ruler of all Seas. In their cosmology, he was also the world-ocean, the vast river stream that encircled the known lands. When Hercules, for his 11th Labour, voyaged to the Hesperides at the edge of the world, it was upon Oceanus that he traveled. Similarly, when Roman emperors ventured to far-flung Britain, it would be upon Oceanus that they sailed. Good ol' Neptune gets called upon often to appear on Roman coins, but for Hadrian, our most globe-trotting of emperors, it's perhaps no surprise that Oceanus had to be invoked too.

    Feel free to show your coins with Oceanus, Neptune, Poseidon, or any other marine gods or goddesses.

    upload_2016-7-2_13-51-51.png
    HADRIAN
    AR Denarius. 2.98g, 19.1mm. Rome mint, AD 119-125. RIC 75a. O: IMP CAESAR TRAIAN HADRIANVS AVG, laureate bust right. R: P M TR P COS III, Oceanus reclining left on a dolphin, crab claw horns on his head, holding an anchor in his right hand.
    Ex E.E. Clain-Stefanelli Collection

    OCEANUS TRIVIA #1: The Bocca della Verità, or Mouth of Truth, in Rome, is a large carved marble face that some believe represents the River Tiber, or the sylvan god, Faunus. However, it is almost certainly Oceanus, as evidenced by the distinctive crab claw horns on his head (also seen on the coin above). Some researchers also believe that the marble was commissioned by Hadrian for use as a drain cover within the precinct of several temples dedicated to Hercules.

    upload_2016-7-2_13-52-15.png

    The Mouth of Truth is most famously associated with the legend that someone telling a lie with his hand in the mouth of the sculpture would have it bitten off. This fanciful story is most probably a medieval concoction. The Mouth of Truth and its legend were shown in the 1953 movie Roman Holiday, starring Audrey Hepburn and Gregory Peck.

    upload_2016-7-2_13-52-30.png

    OCEANUS TRIVIA #2: Oceanus is an occasional extra on the reverse of Roman coins issued by several emperors, but he is almost never the central figure. There is a very rare denarius of Septimius Severus that has a somewhat similar aquatic god that may or may not be Oceanus. Romano-British usurper Carausius has a truly remarkable silver coin with a bust of Oceanus reverse.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
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  3. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    I find Hadrian's denarii very appealing - this coin is an excellent example of why. A fine style portrait and interesting reverse. Congrats!
     
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  4. Carthago

    Carthago Does this look infected to you?

    Great coin and even more interesting write-up. I learned several new things from it!
     
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  5. GregH

    GregH Well-Known Member

    Nice addition & a great story to go with it. If I specialised in one emperor it would be Hadrian.
     
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  6. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Thanks! I feel the same way. Let's all start collecting Hadrian coins, I'm sure @Okidoki won't mind seeing as he has such a head start on all of us :D.

    As did I when my research into the type started to go off on a tangent (actually, several tangents). When I was reading up on E.E. Clain-Stefanelli, I came across an article with her quoting her husband Vladamir on the subject of collecting coins - "Collect what you enjoy, what gives you pleasure. Regardless if you lose money or gain money, you have already gotten back half to three quarters of the money you paid for it." With coins like these, sometimes I feel like you've already gotten back more than what you paid.
     
  7. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Super cool Oceanus-coin, Z-Bro ... (congrats)

    Man, Oki is gonna be very angry that you snatched that baby out of his Hadrian-mitts!!


    :eek:

    I have a couple of Poseidon examples to toss-in ...

    Sicily Syracuse, Hieron II
    Poseidon & Trident/Dolphins

    syracuse hieron II.jpg

    Boeotia, Federal Coinage (Overstrike)
    Head of Demeter/Kore & Poseidon (Overstrike)

    Boeotia Federal Coinage Overstrike.jpg

    Oh, and I also have a couple of Neptune coins ...

    Sextus Pompey (Sicily, Messana)
    Galley w. aquila, Neptune statue & Monster Scylla

    Sextus Pompey.jpg

    Egypt, Alexandria, Antoninus Pius BI Tet
    Antoninus Pius & Neptune w. dolphin & prow

    Antoninus Pius Alexandrian Neptune BI Tet.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
  8. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Cool sea gods, my friend. That Boeotia overstrike is something else... always nice to see it. Happy (belated?) Canada Day!
     
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  9. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    A very nice coin. Im envious
     
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  10. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    What a fantastic coin, Z! I see us all adding Oceanus to our Find & Buy lists now. Drat, more competition.

    Wonderful coin, great writeup :). However, rather than crab claws, it looks Oceanus is wearing a Jeremiah The Innocent headdress. Jeremiah is revered in Austin Texas, so from a geographic standpoint this theory may not fit your coin :D

    [​IMG]

    I have no coins with Oceanus :(

    This looks like a great opportunity to show my Brutium quartuncia again though, so thanks for that!

    [​IMG]
    BRUTTIUM, the Brettii
    216-214 BCE
    Æ quartuncia, 13.5mm, 2.06 g
    Obv: head of Amphitrite left, wearing crab headdress
    Rev: crab; torch above, BPET-TIΩN above and below
    Ref: Pfeiler p. 33, 4a; Scheu, Bronze 51; HN Italy 1944; SNG ANS 123–4; SNG Lloyd –; McClean 1579

    I haven't shown this one in a while:
    [​IMG]
    KINGS of MACEDON. Antigonos III Doson, 229-221 BCE
    struck 227-225 BCE, Amphipolis mint?
    AR tetradrachm, 32 mm, 17.1 gm
    Obv: wreathed head of Poseidon right
    Rev: Apollo seated left on prow left, holding bow; monogram below.
    Ref: Panagopoulou 50–3 var. (unlisted dies); EHC 436; Touratsoglou 52–3; SNG Saroglos 933; SNG Alpha Bank 1046; SNG Ashmolean 3266

    And although not high grade, I love this coin and its hippocamp quadriga :)
    [​IMG]
    PHOENICIA, Berytos
    1st century BCE

    Æ19.5, 5.9 gm
    Obv: Turreted head of Tyche right
    Rev: Poseidon standing left in quadriga drawn by four hippocamps
    Ref: SNG Copenhagen 83
     
  11. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    A distinct possibility, which is now duly noted on my spreadsheet :D.

    Well, Jeremiah doesn't let anything as minor as a geographic standpoint bother him. Here he is on a Daniel Johnston piece I bought years ago... now very far away from Austin, Texas indeed :D...

    image.jpeg
     
  12. Nicholas Molinari

    Nicholas Molinari Well-Known Member

    Oceanus as the god of water is a slightly later Greek myth. In some early accounts he was equated with Sky and Zeus (in the Derveni Papyrus, for example). Acheloios is the original god of water. Hesiod can be credited with the first elevation of the status of Ocean and lowering of Acheloios, so far as I've been able to tell. There were competing traditions and Ocean eventually won out.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2016
  13. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    Crab claws for horns is a new one on me. That is a very cool OP coin.

    I also like TIF's Daniel Johnston and coin contributions.
     
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  14. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    I've read too, about Archeloios worship being antecedent to that of any other sea deity. I have the feeling you go into this in much greater depth in your forthcoming book :). The problem for those casually into Greek myths is that sometimes, the names, genealogies, and just about every other detail, will vary greatly depending on whom you read and prefer to believe. Hesiod's version of things is just the most well-known and entrenched.
     
  15. Nicholas Molinari

    Nicholas Molinari Well-Known Member

    One of the most important pieces of evidence is that the earliest versions of Homer apparently didn't mention Ocean- he was added later. A few ancient scholars actually removed the line (295) about Ocean, thereby placing primacy on Acheloios because they were more familiar with the original tradition. So the story goes.
     
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  16. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    This is exactly how I collect. I have a business mind, so I feel I must recoup costs or profit. However, I realize this is an enjoyment, a hobby for me. I figured whatever I overspend is actually the money I spend for the JOY of being a steward for these wonderful pieces of History.

    Segue: I have noticed several folks posting coins with provenance from the E.E. Clain-Stefanelli Collection. I admit. I have not researched or have done my homework, other than understanding the person's contribution. I am aware she passed back in 2001... but was there a major sell-off / auctioning of her collection very recently? Or, since I own several of her pieces, am I just becoming much more aware of this provenance?
     
  17. ancientnut

    ancientnut Well-Known Member

    I like this full figure portrait of a nude Poseidon, preparing to hurl his trident, and it's from a city named after him!

    11 Poseidonia.jpg

    Poseidonia, Lucania, AR stater, c 430-420 BC. OBV: Nude Poseidon striding to right, wearing chlamys [short cloak] around shoulders and hurling a trident; ethnic to right / REV: Bull walking to left on two dotted exergual lines.; ethnic above.
    Ex: Gerard Hirsch Nachfolger, Auction 275, September 22, 2011, lot 3102.
    Ex: Gerard Hirsch Nachfolger, Auction 130, 1981, lot 806.
     
  18. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Hurl from behind his head! AMAZING! :)

    Humor aside, that is a fantastic stater! Congrats
     
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  19. Nicholas Molinari

    Nicholas Molinari Well-Known Member

    Ha. I never noticed that.
     
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  20. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Naville in their last two auctions have sold several hundred coins from this collection. I don't know the specifics, but perhaps its dispersing has something to do with the passing of her son two years ago:
    http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v18n02a06.html
     
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  21. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    Love the posts!! I'm envious too @zumbly....LOVE the OP coin!!!

    I'll offer a Poseidon as well:
    1000-33-027 Thrace, Byzantion.jpg Byzantion, Thrace Tet
     
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