Interesting how the OP has been a member since 2012, but this seems to be his 2nd or 3rd thread. And he hasn't been back in a couple days. This seems like a coin I would like to check back in on opinions. And something this remarkable didn't come up 10 years ago? When the OP first signed up? It's been in his family since 1877, supposedly.
Yes, True I honestly don’t have any idea if it a real or fake one. I wish they would give the speciations of these types of coins. I been on PCGS NGC ANAC and the red books, and no ifno on it the metal compensation which is copper or other
I really am happy to have your comments. They do mean a lot and just wanted to thank you all for your knowledge and expertise
@gabepn Got any details on this great great grandfather mint employee? Sometimes these family stories aren't entirely accurate. There are both silver and copper versions of this pattern; yours appears to be silver. I agree there should be specs available. https://uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/18haldolpat.html under J1510 says "Note: The silver examples are the correct weight as expected. These were believed struck circa August-September per research by R.W. Julian with a design inspired by J1545 and have Morgan's initial "M" on Liberty's neck." The implication is that they weight the same as the regular 1877 half dollars - 12.5g. You could assume they're also the same dimensions - 30.6mm. The provenance and auction records at uspatterns might lead you to an auction listing that has the specs. Here is the TrueView (PR65) for one of the Heritage coins I posted earlier (which was in a NGC PF66 holder at that time). https://www.pcgs.com/cert/25522777 I remain convinced that yours is fake, but it makes me curious how the dies were made, since only 5 of these are known to exist (9 if you include the copper versions). Perhaps someone was making replicas during an earlier era.
Exactly I would think that there would be more than one die and patterns. I know that I have seen documents stating that he work for the Philadelphia mint for 7 year dying of a cardiac desease at the mint. I could ask my uncle if he could send me the paperwork
Just click the uspatterns link in my previous post for a list and links to details about the 44 different half dollar pattern varieties in 1877. If you're asking how many there are of this specific type, the answer is 5 known.
@gabepn you asked about specs, which implies that it would tell you something useful. So how about telling us the weight and diameter of this coin?
Could be I guess - but the OP's coin definitely wasn't struck by the same die pair as the two Heritage coins linked in KBPLL's post 17. You can count on it.
It's not a fake because it doesn't match a die known to the observer. There may be other known dies or even an unknown die. You can only exclude those dies you can show do not match. The assumption that you know all dies has proven to be a fallacy, even coins of 200 years of age. Specifically I'm thinking of the obverse (15) of the 1793 Liberty Cap (NC-6) which was not discovered until 1985. I discovered the third example 4 years ago. Patterns are even harder to exclude since they are often struck on differing materials than the standard planchet.
I think they also discovered 1922 Peace Dollars with a type 1 ultra high relief which was not known for years.
Are you guys serious? I don’t even need to see a picture of the pattern to know this is a counterfeit.
In the same vein - while highly unlikely, NC-6 could be a counterfeit struck from contemporary counterfeit dies that the Numismatic Community has erroneously accepted as a genuine coin.
Except in this case, the 'new' example had a provenance older than the discovery coin and had been misattributed as S-16 until my discovery while researching S-16s. In fact, each of the 3 known examples was initially attributed as S-16. Also, having a known reverse with the new Obverse makes NC-6 an unlikely candidate as a counterfeit. But it is a consideration for future discoveries as the counterfeiting techniques are improving.
You should state the reasons for your confidence rather than just your confidence if it is so obvious. I could agree with it being likely more than a definitive conclusion because every pattern is distinct and often on atypical alloys and planchets. Every new discovery is unlikely statistically which is what makes them rare and often valuable. But it also means potential new finds usually have alternative explanations. Quitting the research prematurely is also a risk.
Unmarked reproduction coin. It’s weight will be off. Most probably a brass alloy. I picked up a couple similar off fleaBay. I'll post photos when I find them. Z
These all mimic known patterns and all have that yellowish tint to them. Interesting, but not real US Pattern coins. Z
A really good giveaway is the lack of detail in the feathers on the eagle and flat spots in Liberty's hair. Z
