Is China an untapped market for selling u.s. Coinage?s

imagine the possibilities of a progressive China one day allowing unlimited and unsensored internet access. I am not talking about buying anything from China, but selling to them. Much like Japan went crazy for American goods in the 80s-90s, could you picture China pouring money into u.s. Numismatics? We are talking about 1/5th of the world population. Could that be the next major coin boom? Thoughts?

 

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It's already there - the Chinese would buy anything from arts to real estates. Numismatics is not an exception.

 

Sometimes I wonder if the Internet censorship is defensive posturing to keep their balance of trades in check. If they are willing to buy junk bonds and u.s. Debt, surely they would be willing to buy a piece of American history?

 

The biggest problem is how to market and ship to China. They are hot for their coins too (just not from Alibaba). : - )

 

I thought they made their own.

 

The whole world is an untapped market for selling US coins, but the majority of collectors main focus is their own country. If you're willing to eat any shipping and import taxes the world market opens up substantially more.

As far as China, the people with the money would go after the top dog coins if anything, its unlikely there would be a significant demand for what 99 percent of people collect.

 

I agree with baseball. The shipping is the problem, at least for run of the mill stuff. Higher end coins would be worth the shipping I think. Since it's so far away, I'd also think sellers would have problems with buyers making false claims and that sort of thing. I've sold a bit on ebay but never over seas. It just seems risky. Maybe that's why it's a bit of a dead end. Since their population is so large, and their middle class is growing, I can only think of a few things for weak demand. I'm not that familiar with the demand though over there. Didn't pcgs open an office over there?

 

PCGS has Asian offices in Hong Kong and I believe in China as well. NGC also has offices in Shanghai in Hong Kong for Asia. They're doing business there just not with US coins.

 

And the Singapore Coin Fair has good turn-outs. Whether people like it or not Asia is a serious player.

 

The answer to your question is that except in isolation, absolutely not. If US collectors think that foreigners will be the source of future demand to substantially increase prices, they are dreaming. Here are my reasons for it:

Most foreigners have no cultural affinity for US coinage or if they do, I have seen no evidence of it. I see few US coins in foreign auctions and since I don't see them on dealer websites, don't believe it's usually someone other than an American (expat) buying them from auctions anyway.

US collectors are the biggest buyers of the more expensive "world" coins but the distinction is that "world coins" are much cheaper than US coins. US coins are by far the most expensive across the board. Other than "investors" buying them as "widgets" instead of another "investment", why would hardly any real foreigner collectors want to pay the same or more for US coins than their own? The South African collectors I know have the same illusion for their own coinage and it isn't remotely true either.

US coins are not remotely numismatically competitive at the same price point, except at very nominal levels. Anyone here can pick any price point they want above maybe $100 or $200 and most US coins aren't comparable to what the same money can buy in other coinage. Why would hardly any foreign collectors want to do that?

There is a difference between foreigners buying American goods
and having an affinity for US coinage. US made goods are either status symbols or have utility. US coins to a foreigner provide and have neither.

 

I have made several eBay sales to China with no problem.

 

I would consider it a bit premature to tap the Chinese market with any sort of long-term plan in mind. At this point, well-heeled Chinese are buying things because people think they're valuable things, not necessarily because they've developed an obsessive appreciation of that particular thing. Of course, that's not relevant if you've made the sale, but the Chinese numismatic demographic is as yet undeveloped.

 

My recollection is that in a prior Legend Numismatics Market Report, it was stated that there are Japanese buyers of classic proof gold. I can see buyers from China acting likewise in isolation but nothing more.

 

Correct. But even for their local coinage, I don't believe most US collectors (and maybe even NGC and PCGS) have adequately considered the supply limitations elsewhere. China's market will never approach the scale of US collecting financially in my lifetime because the coins which most Chinese almost certainly would like to buy at meaningful prices do not exist in sufficient supply and quality, except maybe for NCLT. This is true of most countries outside of Western Europe and the British Commonwealth.

Outside the US, I have never heard of equivalent supply (even adjusted for population) to Morgan and Peace dollars, Lincoln wheat cents, Buffalo Nickels, SLQ, WLH, Franklin half dollars, etc. Even countries like Britain or France, crowns do not remotely exist in comparable supply to Morgan and Peace dollars, not in anywhere near equivalent quality.

 

Truth. That said, the Chinese are just plain so numerous that, once their society becomes a little more integrated with that of the rest of the world, even a vanishingly-small percentage of them choosing US issues would be a serious dent in the overall number of collectors.

 

My friend Gerry Fortin has done a show over there and has many contacts there from his previous life. They do like us coins especially Morgan dollars walking halves and pre 1933 gold.

 

Yes, but the same argument can/is made for everything. "If just a small percentage of the world starts buying/collecting X, then X will go through the roof". Is there any real EVIDENCE they would want to start collecting the most overpriced coinage in the world? I don't see much. I see mainly them collecting common coins or gold.

I am with @World Colonial. US coinage, for its rarity and price, is the most expensive coinage in the world. I really cannot see why the rest of the world would want to bid it up higher.

 

When I see threads with similar topics, I think that can't be a true collector posting it. The only people I can think of that would be expending thoughts on such, would only have monetary gain in mind.
Sure I would like to get more for my collection than I gave for it, because when I get to the point where I want to sell it, it would be because I have something else that I need to put that money towards. If my collection were destroyed today, I would have a much larger regret for the history lost than the value.
Falling prices are a reflection of the economy, not the lack of collectors. All hobbies have suffered downfalls. All you have to take look at, is the recreation business, to get an idea about the amount of disposable income families or individuals have to put towards any hobby.

 

The same could be said of any number of other countries today where collecting is a lot more established and who can far more easily afford to collect at the same financial level as US collectors. Except as I described for these Japanese collectors of classic proof gold, I am not aware of it at all. It does exist but the observable evidence concurrently demonstrates it is disproportionately financially irrelevant.

The coins I have seen in foreign auctions, foreign collectors almost certainly acquired them a long time ago when prices were much cheaper. Almost none I have seen are in TPG holders or in even in higher grades.

Outside of "investment" buying, foreign collectors disproportionately do not like TPG and will not pay the exorbitant premiums which exist in US collecting for such minimal (if not completely imaginary) differences in quality or this supposed rarity.

What you are actually referring to is Chinese (or other buyers) doing so by pure random chance. The evidence today demonstrates this probability is essentially a big fat zilch.

 

Other countries don't have 20% of the entire population of the Earth in one place. They are already changing the landscape of art collecting worldwide.

China is growing new millionaires faster than any other country, and is now in second place worldwide to the US in total individuals with a net worth over $US1 Million. The world has never seen anything like this before, and the old rules cannot apply.