What to make of Cederlind price on coin insert from CNG

I received my 2 coins yesterday from the last CNG auction. The first is a low grade shekel from Phoenicia just because I wanted one of the type and it came with the inserts from auctions 239, 375 and the info. The 2nd is a Sinope drachm with Cederlind's insert with a price on it that is really high. The estimate was $200 and I won it at $280 bu the insert has a price of $1299. What is up with that?




And in case you're interested, here's the shekel

 

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Love that sheckel H8! Great scores.

 

Maybe the tag lists the price in Canadian dollars? I hear they are cheaper to use than toilet paper these days. For our Canadian friends, I'm just kidding...maybe!

 

No answer, but nice coin for sure.

 

Dealers will mark coins up for shows, especially if the table rent is high. Gotta pay the man. In this case, however, it seems to be a misprint - maybe it was supposed to be $299?

 

Makes sense to me.

 

I knew Tom well, better than most. I was one of the few dealers who could afford to buy from him because I understood his pricing. Anyway, Tom priced his coins two ways. One to sell, one not to sell. When he had coins that seemed astronomical, it was his way of saying this one is mine, for my collection, but if I had to sell it, well, this is what it would take.

 

It's usually best to disregard the prices you find on these dealers' tags. Any price can be stuck on a tag, but the one that matters is how much the coin actually sold for.

Your coin featured in one of his Bid or Buy sales last year, so it's likely it didn't sell there. The price is not a misprint... it was listed at $1275 in that sale. An ex Cederlind coin I won for $110 in the last CNG auction was listed at $750 in one of his previous Bid or Buy sales.

 

I agree with others, (I didn't know about the "this is mine" pricing though). I have coins with his flips at astronomical pricing versus what I paid. You never know what they actually changed hands for though.

 

This explains a lot. I bought very few coins from him because he was usually high on lower grade coins that I wanted because of some small feature that most people would not care about. He seemed pleasant at the table but I don't make offers on coins priced at five times what I would pay so I bought very few coins from his tables at Baltimore. I do know another dealer, now retired, with similar pricing schedules for the same reason and I suppose I am that way, too, since I would have some big numbers on some of my favorite coins if forced to price them. It is not an easy thing to do. I have a friend who was approached to buy his house when he did not want to sell. To shut the guy up, my friend quoted him a number three times market value. With no further haggling, the house was sold.

That said, what is there about this Sinope that makes it a 'not to sell' coin? It is not high grade or particularly more complete than most. I suspect he knew something about the magistrate name Fage-- that we are missing. $280 seems perfectly reasonable for the venue.

 

For example, Tom Cederlind had no particular interest in Septimius Severus so I was able to buy this horridly overcleaned one for his asking price. Only Martin would understand why the 1988 version of me would want it.

 

I'm in the same boat; although my insert price may have a little more credence due to past auction records.


BOEOTIA, Federal Coinage. Circa 304-294 BC. AR Drachm (19mm, 5.62 g). Boeotian shield / Amphora within incuse square. BCD Boiotia 62; HGC 4, 1164. VF, toned, traces of find patina, light scratch under tone in field on obverse.
From the estate of Thomas Bentley Cederlind.

Insert:


CNG 2016 Purchase Price: $220 (sans buyer's fee)
CNG 2016 Estimate: $300

This same coin was auctioned through CNG Mail bid sale #58, 18 Sept 2001, lot 420 w/ the following description:
Source Via Wildwinds



420. Thebes. Circa 480-456 BC. AR Drachm (5.63 gm). Boeotian shield /
Amphora in incuse square. BMC Central Greece pg. 69, 19; SNG Copenhagen
261. EF, beautiful dark toning. ($1000)

This rare drachm is from the period after the end of the Persian Wars and
before the Athenian invasion of Boeotia in 456. Most of the Boeotian League
had Medized during the Persian Wars. After the Greek victory, the region
went into a political and economic decline, with little coinage being
produced.

Lot sold for $925.

It's not totally asinine to price a coin at $2750 if it sold for $1000+ with a buyer's fee back in 2001. I've seen several of the same coins sell for more than double at auction with more than 10 years between auctions.

I wonder if my specific coin's value has dropped due to an introduction of several other Boeotian drachms since 2001, or a hoarde find? Interesting, nonetheless.

-Michael

 

Not many of the type were known in 1988?

 

I like the Sinope but I would be in it for the Shekel.

 

That Thebes is nice too- I'll take that!

 

I just noticed the date differences between all of the records.
CNG 2016 auction: 304-294 BC
Tom's insert: 378-379 BC
CNG 2001 auction: 480-456 BC

My coin appears to have found the fountain of youth.

 

I think I have an old example of dealers marking up their coins astronomically in the hopes of getting a good payout.



I bought this Junius Silanus denarius for around $170 including shipping. Civitas Galleries wanted $195 originally.



Now, that in itself is not the unreasonable price. That was provided by the second tag that came with the coin, courtesy of Joel Malter on January 23, 1975, and NFA prior to him.



Joel tried to sell this coin, which can be bought anywhere today for around $160-$190 for $79.50, which in today's money is an eye watering $483.76. Probably not his fault and he was trying to recoup his money after overpaying for it from the previous person who paid an eye popping $75 for to NFA sometime back in the late 60's or early 70's from a mail order catalog (sight unseen), which would probably equal around $520+ in today's money. How you spend that kind of money over the mail for a description of a coin, sight unseen, is amazing to someone from my generation used to internet sales with high res digital photography.

Anyway, I'm to conclude one of two things here: That either Joel Malter didn't do his research and overpaid (despite being a skilled dealer), and tried to pass it off for a small profit without bothering to disguise how much he overpaid for it to begin with, or you seasoned veterans were paying crazy prices for common Roman silver back in the day. Not sure which.

 

The odd reverse legend??? C'mon @maridvnvm help me out

I agree that the listed prices inflated or astronomical (for whatever reasons) are irrelevant and only what matter is what the market or an individual is willing to pay...decades ago or now, at a profit or a loss ......not even factoring in the trendy issues that come and go.

......And Ken's answer seems the most likely regarding the OP issue in question.

 

NFA (Numismatic Fine Arts) was founded in 1971 and was officially bankrupt in 1994. Bruce McNall did much damage to the coin trade, but some of the insane pricing one sees from that period is a side effect. However, one could still buy coins from him reasonably. I remember buying 4 Republican denarii from David Sear back in the 80's, superb VF (dont remember the types) for $100. I turned them to Tom Cederlind who sold them for me for about $800.