Lets talk about eagles

Okay, I understand that this probably deserves more to be in the general discussion, but I don't think most of the people there knows about the 12 eagles of Rome.

So this has been in my mind for a long time, According to legend, when Rome was founded in 753 BC, 12 eagles appeared, the early Romans took this sign as how long Roman civilization would last. They believed that each eagle represents a decade of Romes existence, and they believed that after 120 years, Rome would fall. Obviously Rome didn't fall in 633 BC. BUT the western roman empire did fall in 476 AD, 1229 years after the founding of Rome. 1229 is around 1200 years, so WHAT IF each eagle actually represented a century? Tell me if you've ever thought about this.
I'm probably overthinking, but this seems interesting.
Feel free to post your eagle coins.

 

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I'm going to disappoint. I have but two coins with eagles, and both are Greek. But since you requested coins in general with eagles on them, here they are:

PS: I know some of you are probably tired of seeing them, but my collection is still quite small compared to those who have been collecting for decades, so I only have a limited amount to show.



At any rate, I don't put too much stock in those legends. Roman writings are full of omens and visions after the fact. They lived in a superstitious world surrounded by what we now know to be natural phenomenons, but which they had no means to explain, science being in its infancy. So they did their best and sought explanations in omens and visions. Just read any old Roman historian and you will find story after story of eagles, serpents, lightning, or some other event signaling an event before it happened.

 

Its alright, anyways I only posted this thread to talk about the 12 eagles myth

 

Cool thread!!!

It seems that my Roman eagles are almost solely depicted on legionary standards and on Ptolemaic examples....so I'll offer this billon Tet of Herennius Etruscus....and they always say myths contain a grain of truth

 

My favorite eagle in my collection:

 

Makedonon
Amyntas III, Father of Philip II, Grandfather of Alexander III the Great
393-369 BCE
AE 17mm, 3.2g
Obv: Herakles in Lion Headdress
Rev: AMYNTA Eagle Devouring Serpant
Ref: SNG ANS 100ff

 

The Mamertini, Sicily
c. 288 - 278 BCE
Bronze pentonkion
Messana mint
27.5mm, 16.29g
Obv: APEΣ, laureate head of Ares right, Macedonian helmet behind
Rev: MAMEPTINΩN, eagle standing left on a thunderbolt, head left, wings open
Ref: Calciati I p. 93, 3/1; SNG ANS 402; BMC Sicily p. 109, 3; SNG Cop 434 var (on reverse Φ left)
Ex: Forum

Comments: Mamertini or "children of Mars," was the name taken by a band of Campanian (or Samnite) freebooters who about 289 B.C. seized the Greek colony of Messana at the north-east corner of Sicily, after having been hired by Agathocles to defend it (Polyb. 1. 7. 2). - 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica

 

Rome did not fall, it merely changed hands.


Italy, Rome
Kingdom of the Ostrogoths
Anonymous temp. Theodoric
(AD 493-534)
AE Follis (40 Nummis)
22 mm x 9.73 Grams
Obverse: Helmeted and Cuirassed bust of Roma right. Latin Legend - INVICTA ROMA
Reverse: Eagle standing left. [X over retrograde L] left field.
Ref: COI 76b, MEC 1, 106, Wroth pl. XIII, no.3
Note: Rare.

 

That is a great statement of a Coin! Very cool.

 

Probably.

I can agree with no statement that perpetuates the myth that Rome, or part of it, fell in 476 AD. That is the kind of thing invented by people who write multiple choice tests and cause schools to teach to the test rather than promoting understanding. At one time we went through a time when students were required to write essays on why Rome fell or why it lasted so long. I'm not sure those days were any better. What other dates are sacred to history teachers who do not understand how to do anything but churn out another generation of date memorizers? How else can we promote an understanding of history that might actually lead to us avoiding its repeated pattern of mistakes?

Amen. Currently it is in the hands of people who prefer we not collect their coins but don't mind when we populate their cruise ships. A fair question may be where and how often has Rome been moved since Constantine started a trend to separating the civilization from one particular set of hills.

 

here's one of my favorite roman eagles...

 

The city may have changed hands but the Roman Empire, at least in the West, did fall.

 

Sure but for hundreds of years people still believed they lived in the Roman Empire. It was only in the modern period that we decided that the Roman Empire of the West had fallen.

 

To an extent; By the 700's most Europeans (not counting nobility) did not consider themselves Roman, aside from the actual people in Rome or Southern Italy.
The Western Empire, as a government headed by an Emperor ceased to exist in 476, though some rump states did continue to exist, Sossions and the Romano Moorish kingdom.
As for eagles, I here is the only example of one on a coin that I have. I know I need to get more coins




Price 1538, VF/F+, 17.7mm, 4.05 grams, Struck 310 - 301 B.C.E. Abydos Mint

Obverse: Head of Alexander as Herakles in lionskin headdress to right

Reverse: Zeus seated left on throne, holding eagle in right and scepter in left, monogram in left field and below throne, ΑΛΕΞΑΝ∆ΡΟΥ to right

 

What happened in 476 CE was that King Odoacer refused to adopt the title and office of Emperor, as other Barbarians had done in the past. However, many of the bureaucratic structures and even the Senate continued to some extent into the 6th and 7th centuries. It's not like 476 CE came and all of the sudden the Dark Ages are here and everyone is illiterate, living in huts, and feudalism is everywhere. Even some of the towns and cities continued, although diminished, for centuries to come...and some were never abandoned despite the breakdown in infrastructure and commerce over the centuries.

 

Interesting side note, the last action that we know the senate did was commission a column in Eastern Emperor Phocas's honour.
The Senate vanished by the 610's.
I do not know of any historians or Late Roman enthusiast who think that after Romulus Augustulus was deposed people suddenly started living in mud huts. I stated that the Empire in the West led by a Western Emperor, a side from the Dominion of Sossion and the Romano-Moorish kingdom, ceased to exist.

 

Yeah, for some reason the people living in Rome really like the tyrannical and crazy emperor Phocas.

 

Considering how many Roman Emperors could be described as cray or tyrannical, is that really any surprise?

 

This is a bit different from the story as I learned it. Odoacer and the other German strong men were Christians but Arian heratics making them unacceptable as emperor to the Church and most/many citizens. This was no problem to the Germans who were happy to rule through a series of puppet (but Orthodox) Emperors who could be replaced if they ever thought of getting out of line. What I understood happened in 476 AD was Odoacer informed the Eastern Emperor that it would not be necessary to replace Romulus. The idea of a puppet was no longer in fashion. Anyone have a agree/disagree on this?

 

Yeah, but the senate never liked any of the previous tyrannical emperors.