Help with gold coins $2.5,$3,$5

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by chromerunner, May 27, 2016.

  1. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    I don't see anything wrong with this one other than its been cleaned. It has no shortage of hairlines from a good scrubbing. Xf details I'd call it. Also the missing serif of I is a good diagnostic of the date
     
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  3. Travlntiques

    Travlntiques Well-Known Member

    Ok, ok, sorry for the cut & paste job here, but I feel posting the actual article will get more views than a link. I've actually been "had" by one of these coins....mine was a $2.50.

    Your Quarter Eagle has the same issues.

    [​IMG]

    Counterfeit 1892 Half Eagle
    by Max SpiegelNumismatic Guaranty Corporation ………………

    Many counterfeit US gold coins originated in the 1960s and 1970s in the Middle East.

    [​IMG]The 1892 Half Eagle is a relatively common issue with a mintage of 753,480 pieces. This date can easily be located in circulated grades through MS 62, the grade most frequently encountered by NGC. At that level the NGC US Coin Price Guide reports a value of $710, which ranks it with some of the other popular Type coins from the Liberty Half Eagle series.



    Counterfeit coins exist for virtually every date of US gold coins and the 1892 Half Eagle is no exception. Because this is a common date, the fakes were generally not intended to fool collectors. Rather, many of the spurious pieces originated in 1960s and 1970s in the Middle East (particularly Lebanon), where merchants preferred gold in coin form as a store of value. The merchants were not particularly concerned with the authenticity of the coin as long as it had the correct weight and composition.

    [​IMG]A number of these Middle Eastern fakes ended up in the US, where private ownership of gold was illegal until December 31, 1974. Many of them were likely imported by people who wanted to own gold coins, but could not legally acquire genuine US gold coins domestically.

    A counterfeit 1892 Half Eagle submitted to NGC is a typical Middle Eastern counterfeit coins. The coin has the same design, weight and composition as a genuine example. The finer details, however, are lacking. There is moderate softness on both sides but primarily at the digits and letters, which can appear almost cartoonish. There are also a number of raised lines—often seen on fakes—by the denticles, especially on the reverse. A few particularly noticeable raised lines can be seen above the D in UNITED and the F in OF. These are almost never seen on genuine specimens.

    Although these Middle Eastern counterfeits were not manufactured to deceive numismatists, many have found their way into collections. As older collections are sold, the fakes will reappear in the marketplace. Luckily, the spurious pieces still have significant intrinsic value because of their gold content.

    ----------------------------------
    Big Thanks to Max Spiegel for all his educational efforts!
     
    Santinidollar likes this.
  4. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    The 1857 $3 is also an old counterfeit. Interesting tidbit about these from the "grapevine" of forgotten stories from the guys who were there: ANACS knew immediately these were counterfeits. When a few were returned as fakes, one very well known dealer claimed they were authentic due to the broken "I." That's because the fake was struck using a transfer die made from a genuine 1857 w/the broken "I."

    BTW: :yawn: The "raised lines" :jawdrop: are more accurately called "TOOL MARKS." I'm sure (?) Max knows this or he will soon. :smuggrin:
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
    Travlntiques likes this.
  5. chromerunner

    chromerunner ******

    What jumps out on 1857 $3? The weak date or the weakness at 1 o'clock on the reverse? I cant seem to find other reverses from this year with those weak struck areas. I would hate to throw it in the melt pile with a chance its real But would prefer to avoid giving a tpg my money if its pretty much a dead on fake.
     
  6. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Watching "Roots" will answer tomorrow; however, I'm surprised no one didn't tell you already!
     
  7. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    He sure knew but maybe he wanted to make it easier (i.e. readable) for beginners and new collectors?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    PLEASE DO NOT MELT THIS COIN. It is worth its gold value to put into jewelry or to use to teach counterfeit detection.

    What jumps out is this. The coin is blah. No real contrasts - luster is full and even. Alloy (color) is off.

    Now look closely at it (wish photo was sharper). When you see an uncirculated GOLD coin with full luster that is lacking details (check out the lack of veins in the leaves near the top of the wreath) so that it appears to be worn; 9 times out of 10 it is an older counterfeit. They make them much better than this today!
     
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  9. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    That's what got me. I thought it was circulated and cleaned / polished
     
  10. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    This coin is not XF, and I'm not sure if it is cleaned. The harlines look like those that were caused by friction with human fingers, which wore it to an AU level. Try this experiment: use a BU 1964 quarter as a pocket piece for a couple weeks and see how hairlines develop.

    It is still a details coin, so the value isn't really different.
     
  11. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    @TypeCoin971793 I don't think any TPGS will "detail" a counterfeit. If the OP wants his coin slabbed, ICG will put it into a slab with a Counterfeit label. That should increase its value a lot as a teaching tool. I know at least three instructors of counterfeit courses use their slabs.

    Additionally (not that it matters) IMO, the fake has the details of an XF-40 to XF-45 coin with the luster and lack of wear of an AU-58 to MS-62.;)
     
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  12. chascat

    chascat Well-Known Member

    Seize that purveyor of fakes and remove 1 limb for each counterfeit he holds!
     
  13. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank


    Do you enjoy not being nice?
     
  14. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    I was nice, see...:angelic:
     
  15. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    Just so you know, I was talking about the half eagle, which is genuine.
     
  16. chromerunner

    chromerunner ******

    For anyone interested in the results.
    NGC posted today
    1857 = Not Genuine
    $5 = AU Details Rim Filing


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  17. Just bought this 1857 $3 and compared it with the not genuine example. Is mine genuine?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



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  18. Omegaraptor

    Omegaraptor Gobrecht/Longacre Enthusiast

    This is why you should buy all gold slabbed unless you're 100% sure it's real. The prevalence of fakes.

    Considering buying gold in October, preferably a piece with a mintage under 30k.
     
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