The TV drama

As I mentioned in another thread, I recently made the acquaintance of a CoinVault customer that has been purchasing Carson City Gold. I of course forwarded a copy of "Trends" and Quarterly 3 of the greysheet for him to compare.
His tool for price guides is the Red Book. While we all know how great a referrence tool it is, a good price guide it is not.

TV has a major draw for some. The flashy lights, the showmen touting coins as rare. Many millions are sucked into the hype and part with their hard earned money. Most are lost when they finally realize that they have been burnt and robbed on their collection.

This gentlemen believes that I as a coin dealer am offering an opinion that TV is bad because I do not know any better.

It is hard to break through the mystique of TV. It is harder when collectors view dealers as the enemy. In this day of free information and endless possibilities it is easy to take the short path.

I hope that at least a few of you realize that there are many of us here on the forum that while we only offer our opinions, that they are based in fact and truth.

Sometimes we as a group do not like the answers that we receive, or to admit that we are limited in our knowledge. Do not allow yourselves to become hardened against the truth.

We all learn new things everyday. What seperates the masses is that that some of us are willing to accept the fact that we do need to learn more.

 

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Well, this is a topic that I have broached before, but I believe that people who respect themselves respect their money, whether it comes "easy" or "hard." I learned to value money because it requires conscious effort to earn it. Unfortunately, subconscious or semi-conscious efforts are all that most employment requires of most people.

When you consider what the so-called "average" person believes, it can be discouraging to appoint yourself educator-in-chief.

I look to the model of Cognitive Dissonance from Leon Festinger. Once we make a choice that is hard to undo (buying a car; buying a coin) we develop a long list of truly rational, reasonable, and logical, common sense explanations for our choice.

This is the main reason that I warn people against taking someone else's word for "good" software for collection management. I always recommend getting, sometimes paying for, all the demos on CD (no downloads!). Then, load each one in turn with some of your collection. You will learn about how you collect. You might be surprised. You will also find out which products you like. When someone says, "I bought this and it works pretty good for me." you need to run away.

So, too, with TV. Once someone pays for the material, they are unlikely to admit to a mistake. In fact, Festinger points to an irrational process of changing one's opinion based on new facts. He says, you buy a luxury car and it is uncomfortable on long rides and you then say that comfort on long rides was not so important after all. So, it really is hard to bring the truth to people.

(It has been said that coffee was discovered by a Muslim missionary who ran for his life after trying to tell some Ethiopians about his religion. Islam includes the story of Jesus, of course, so I guess the missionary felt lucky enough. At least we do not face that level of rejection.)

 

I wake up every day looking forward to discovering that everything I know is wrong. It is quite a motivator.

 

You and me both sir. I find the challenge of learning the most fullfilling part of my life.

All the members here know my passion, and while it often gets in the way, I hold myself to a higher standard. I take it personally when we lose a collector to a scheme like TV or mail order promises.

While I have no illusions of changing the market as a whole, I cannot sit on my hands and wish for things to get better. Several members here have proven time and time again that they are doing what they can for the hobby. I am proud to be associated with all of you that keep the fires burning.

 

I usually admit when i'm wrong, it happens often. Sometimes (not always) it takes a little while for me to see i'm wrong but when i do i usually ditch the previous argument. Not carry on regardless!

 

I agree with that. My comment about being "educator-in-chief" was only that it can be discouraging. I believe that "social change" (so-called) comes from one person at a time. Even if you could blast your message from the sky, it would still have to be understood by each person individually. So, the good work you do educating individual collectors might not show results immediately or broadly. However, like you, I also feel an obligation to help others enjoy the hobby and I also believe that helping one person at a time is the only reasonable way.

In terms of television sales, the medium requires that these people bring the most common material to the viewer with the easiest message possible. We can (and do!) condemn them, but I think that they are in a bind of their own, and I do not mean financially. Like all of us, I have benefited from "educational" TV, the Discovery Channel, Nova, etc. Really, though, I avoid them. They cannot do more than flash images accompanied by words that are easy to understand. Depth and discussion, reflections and questions are impossible on TV. So, the coin sellers are pretty much limited in what they can say -- even if they wanted to say more.

Also, the material must be immediately recognizable. The History Channel can sell Alexander easily enough; Aspasia of Miletos might not get an audience. So, too, with the coin guys on TV. I just posted about jetons and medals. You cannot sell them on TV because no one recognizes them. Morgan Dollars and Buffalo Nickels, etc., etc., are instantly recognizable.

All of the above just sets the stage for saying that one reason that I like to write about medals, stock certificates, etc., etc., is that I want collectors to get out of the lazy mental habit of only perceiving the easy images of common American coins. It widens the opportunities for enjoyment and puts the collector into a better buying opportunity.

Of course, in my monthly column, I also mention websites for American Type Coins. That might be about dealers with informational websites, clubs, or individual collectors. Again, however, the point is to get the readers to do something unusual for themselves and gain from it.

 

It seems like common sense to me. Anyone who is selling on TV is paying for their advertising time - be it a 30-second spot or an hour on HSN. How are they paying for this? Well, any smart advertiser will build the cost of advertising into their selling price. Knowing this, how is possible to get a great deal on TV when the price has already been inflated? Knowing that, it stands to reason that buying coins on TV is simply not a good idea.

 

Unfortunately, I know that most people don't know what a "great deal" is. The sad thing is, with the advent of the internet, there are so many ways to research and learn about an item before throwing money away. I have found that many people are just too lazy to do their research for themselves and even joining a forum such as this one, or one of the many others available, just takes too much effort.

Our society is catering more and more to this type of mentality and there is always a salesman waiting to take advantage of these people. I have certainly got burned a couple of times. But it was because I felt the risk was worth it, and I chose to take that risk after weighing what I could gain and what I could afford to lose. On many of these, I have made out quite well. On a couple, I was wrong. The blame is on me for those and I accept full responsibility. What happened to these types of values? I know they still existed when I was growing up.

I would like to point out that TV sales would never have reached the height they are at now if not for the people who supported it by purchasing. Although I absolutely abhor the misleading and false advertising that is occurring on TV, I have to put some of the blame on the people who are happily throwing their money away on deals that are obviously "too good to be true" and then blaming the seller. Buyers have to take some responsibility for their actions. If help wasn't so readily available, I could have a little more understanding - but people need to get up off their behinds and take some responsibility for their actions! If you are willing to throw $100 or more away on misrepresented coins, then take that $100 and buy some books and educate yourself!!

 

The unfortunate problem here is that even the most underinformed and uninitiated know they aren't going to "get rich quick" on $100 worth of books. So what they *should* do and what they *do* are, sadly, usually diametrically opposed to one another.

 

You are correct ziggy. That is why it is so important for those of us who do know better to share what knowledge we have. Not for our own personal gain, but for the future of our hobby.

 

OOoooooo!! That hit's the nail so squarely on the head! It's so true of TV sales and Internet SPAM too, just to mention a couple of annoying things in our lives today! Another reason both are still alive and well is that the American public is lazy when it comes to making a purchase. They actually believe commercials on TV, that newspapers and TV News is unbiased, and that the email offer they received from someone in Liberia telling them they can share in millions is real. They prefer to take the easy route instead of taking the time to educate themselves, and it's so much easier to believe the sales pitch on HSN than to pick up a book and find out the truth. And they will always bite on a "get rich quick" schema. In this case, all the Internet has done is make it easier for them to make a purchase without any fuss about needing to possess knowledge.

While it is an admirable goal to try educate the American buyer, whether they be a collector or not, you must understand. Most folks don't want your advice on what to spend their money on, regardless of how smart or qualified you are. It's their money, they made it, and by golly they'll spend it any they way they want to.

It's sad, but the vast majority of the American public are like sheep. They want to be told how to think, how to vote and what to buy. Heaven forbid that they should take responsibility for their own actions or - shudder - learn something. That ended when they finaly got out of high school, right? They don't THINK for themselves anymore (if they ever did)! Ya' know, there is no such thing as a cold, but every time the TV advertisements run telling them that it's flu and cold season, sales of those products skyrocket.

I think the only thing you'll get from beating your head against the wall is a sore head.

 

You are absolutely correct. Somedays I wish that I could walk away, make my money and forget about all of the collectors who lose. Unfortunately, I have this lousy complex that keeps my ethics and standards very high. I don't do most of what I do for my own personal gain. In my early numismatic life, I was pointed in the right direction. While I hope to change the hobby for the better, my purpose will be served if I truly help just one collector.

 

I agree with ND. Whether you are a dealer or a collector, you are only going to get out of this hobby what you put into it. For an honest dealer, an educated buyer is a blessing. So it is good business practice overall to educate the buyer, even if you only want to look at it from a business standpoint. Looking at the bigger picture, a great deal of the charm that this hobby has held for me is that there is always something new to learn. What good is learning something if you have no one to share it and discuss different opinions with? Oftentimes, the end result of a large discussion will offer a conclusion that is worth more than the sum of the parts put into the discussion. Even if you don't want to look at it from the standpoint of helping everyone, look at the benefits of having more viewpoints than yours to base your knowledge on. That is invaluable.

 

I had to go and get my spouse to show her that - someone - thinks I'm correct. Smiling she told me I should write it on my calendar.

Be at peace Steve. Many of us have that same complex which is why we participate in this Forum, the Coin World Forum and in WINS. All of these folks working toward to same goal of "educating the collector" might just make a difference. We can always hope.

..JD

 

When I stumbled across this particular forum I was amazed at the knowledge shared and the willingness of a few who shared freely. As many long term collectors know, many dealers and long time collectors hold onto their knowledge like it is a state secret.
I have been trying for almost a year to get some other dealers to get off of their lazy butts to help contribute.
When I began my career, I looked to the true experts like David Bowers and Don Kagin for inspiration. For any who have had the pleasure of talking with these gentlemen they already know that they are far more than dealers. Both give a lot of their time and energy to promoting the good within the hobby.
After joining this forum, I looked into other areas in which to participate. I have found many, but only recommend a few. Wins is a wonderful resource for collectors to take advantage of.
I do wish that I had more time to devote to the internet forums. I believe many accomplishments can be completed here, if only more would join in on the fun.

 

"There is a sucker born every minute"
Now, I for one may have overspent on a coin here or there but that is still with comparison shopping and a little research and no great damaged done. The T.V sales pitch is more geared to the impulse buyer then the future coin collector so it is pretty much like, "oh that looks like an old coin" I'll buy it (As G-D mentioned in his post). Henceforth, today's T.V coin buyer was yesterday's Elvis plate puchaser and in both cases it is money thrown out the window.

 

Perhaps this is a good place for my little rant.In Canada we have "The Shopping Channel". About 4 times a year there is a dealer who comes on for a few days to sell coins and banknotes.He has a couple of ways of parting you from your money. One way is to tell you things that are grossly misleading, the other is to lie to you.
The most common way of misleading is one that I have talked about here before and it concerns proof sets. The Royal Canadian Mint has been making what they call "prestige proof sets" since the early seventies. Over the years these sets have improved greatly in both quality and presentation. A set comparable to one which sold for $12.00 in 1971 now sells at current issue for about $80.00. So he sell a bunch of early sets with values still under $20.00 for $50.00 and tells you what a great deal it is compared to current issue price.
Then he says he gives "crazy deals" and that's why he keeps getting invited back year after year.I am amazed that people don't undersand that the repeat invites are related not to the deal he gives but to his positive contribution to The Shopping Channel's bottom line.

The other lie is a constant assertion that 90% of the lots shown will sell out during the current airing.If this is true then why are almost all of the items still available 3 weeks later?

Sorry I just can't help it. My wife asks me why I watch the shows if they upset me so much. My answer is I still just like looking at the coins.

 

The major shows here in the states also use very misleading information. While I have not seen a flat out lie, to me, a half truth is just as bad.
The big one that gets me the most phone calls concerns the mint set or proof set deal. Every few months in their attempt to rob more people, they make the claim that these sets are vanishing daily and the price is going up on the next show.
Without fail, I receive many calls and emails about people wishing to sell their coins as the price is going up. Unfortunately, they paid roughly 3 times retail for the set.
If you visit any show or shop, you will find most sets easily available at near dealer ask.