Bad US coin buys

In your opinion what is a rare modern coin? examples?

 

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They range the gamut from low mintage to high mintage and none saved. There are coins that were produced accidently or inadvertantly as well as the result of intentional trials and processes. There are so many it's hard to list. The '75-no S dime apparently had a mintage of 2. My favorite is the 1964 clad quarter with a mintage of 1. There are several varieties of clad quarters that are rare in high grade like XF because they were never saved. There are PL's and it appears a handful of SMS coins are true proofs. There are regular issues like the '82-P quarter that is unavailable with a good strike from a good die. There are one cent coins that are invariably dogs and are all corroded like the '68 cent. The '84-P cent is very scarce and possibly rare with nice surfaces. There are countless subtleties because just like old coins each date has its own unique characteristics. The '72-D 25c comes extremely nice but 100% full strikes are rare if they exist at all. There are various mules where dies are paired with old reverses.

Sure, one can build a really nice modern set without spending a great deal of money by sticking with chBU and low end Gems and just not including the rarities. This is the same thing as classic coins except that BU sets are much easier.

While may laugh at attempting Gem sets as a fool's errand people who collect older coins simply don't realize what a huge spread in quality exists in moderns. The typical older modern was very poorly struck from heavily worn dies and this is much of the reason people never saved moderns; most were just ugly. But nice Gems do exist for almost every single modern (except varieties) and such collections are possible and aren't necessarily expensive.

But people just assume there are mountains of these coins saved because they don't realize nobody cared about the coins and nice examples were extremely difficult to find. Even with mintages in the hundreds of millions or the billions some of these coins are highly elusive in Gem.

I like a lot of the lower mintage coins as well like the '82-nmm 10c or the '96-W 10c. The upper and lower leaf WI 25c's could experience far more demand than the supply. These are essentially different types rather than mere varieties since they were intentionally made.

 

Good question. I tend to think these issues won't engender much new interest, since the original issues were in silver. They seem like nice trophies for collectors of the series. It may rekindle things for some though. I guess I can see it both ways

 

I like what you said in last paragraph - so true! The end of silver lost a lot of collectors, and modern coins have suffered for lack of silver no doubt. As you are alluding, what is considered junk or common May in fact not be so. Take for example 1883 liberty head nickels. The without cents was highly collected, the with cents (and just about all subsequent dates in xf and higher) was not and virtually impossible to find problem free and in better grades. People thought nothing special of the w/ cent nickels but they sure are worth something today. It also makes me think that "modern" is a unclear label because at some time they won't be so modern anymore, which is where I believe prices will increase if warranted by demand. Maybe "contemporary" coinage is more clear. When I think of modern, I think of machine struck coinage that goes back centuries. Modern is also a label for post silver US coinage I suspect as well

 

I think another thing that turns off people from collecting moderns are mint sets. The lower mintage sets are the only ones with a bit of a premium, and it's slight. Some still collect rolls of coins, and with mint sets it seems unwise to pursue condition rarity when the sets provide too many gems. I'm guilty of spending some coins from mint sets at the store, maybe many others did the same when they discovered no one values them. The 82 and 83 coins stand out because no sets were made (excluding the limited mint store sets), but I wonder if any other dates will prove to have elusive coins in top grade

 

Mint sets have been getting destroyed indiscriminately for decades. The markets were saturated because everyone who wanted a mint set bought five. They bought five, sold four, and spent all the coins from them except the half dollars or whatever coin interested them. Despite the fact that the best coins went in the mint sets they get no respect. most people to this day don't know the best coins went in the sets.

A mere handful of collectors seek circulating moderns and millions more seek them in pocket change. But this is a growing segment of the hobby and this growing demand will eventually outstrip the still rapidly shrinking supply of mint sets.

While I think this combination will result in explosive prices I would advise just about everyone to avoid investing or speculating in this area. Investors will almost always find a way to lose money and they disrupt markets on the way to their baths. I personally believe they are among the most wonderful coins in the world to collect whether you collect from circulation, spend nominal money, or expend great effort to obtain the finest or rarest. There are a lot of great coins in the world (they almost all are) and the best advise for newbies is to collect what they like. The worst thing we can do for newbies is to harshly criticize their choice before or after it's been made.

 

Something strikes me that I never thought of quite this way before. Modern collectors already tend to be a little more contrary than other collectors who also lean a little in this direction. Maybe the oft repeated concept from the last half century that there were no collectible coins made after 1964 will tend to increase this further as herd followers are driven from hobby by modern bashing.

 

Then based on your theory the coin should be worth the same as a 1933 Saint and the 1964 clad quarter (if put in an auction) will set a new world record for a single coin.

 

There's no "proper price" for any coin. A unique '76 Ike proof minted in Philly exists as well and would bring a good price but who knows how much that is. A 1933 Saint is worth a lot of money because there are many very well heeled collectors who want to own the coin. But how many people want to own the Ike and how high are they willing and able to bid? I'd like it at any price but certainly can't afford it at any price.

If there were as many collectors for moderns as there are for classics then, yes, moderns would often be worth more than the highest priced classics. But moderns attract more newbies and more middle class collectors. They attract more children and young adults so prices are lower. Many of the '65 to date Jeffersons are much scarcer than the '50-D nickel but the more modern coins go for only a tiny fraction of the '50-D. This is not natural but is caused largely by decades of the hobby's failure to attract newbies and by modern bashing including the suppression of markets by hobby organizations and publishers.

 

This is one of the things that are so great about collecting in a field by yourself; if you want something at any price you'll almost always be able to buy it. The first time I ever couldn't buy something I wanted was back around 1999. A dealer had a really nice high end 1983-P quarter with type "d" reverse. This type isn't especially rare but is quite uncommon with mint luster. It was 30% of the mintage but only about 10% of the survivors. It was also very well struck and had only light wear. The dealer didn't know it was a variety and agreed it was a nice AU. I kept offering more and he still turned down $25! I could have gone higer of course, but this was already far above market value so I let him keep it. Someday I might regret it, but not yet.

 

Wrong. The market is "immature" because most collectors do not want them or don't want to pay more for them and don't share the same inflated opinions of them as you do.

 

You are interpreting my posts as demeaning moderns because I disagree with your opinion of their merits.

This current debate of ours started when you replied to my post where I explained a position I am able to defend, that these coins are at or near the bottom of the preference scale and there is a no reason to believe otherwise where it will matter financially (which is exactly what this topic is supposed to be about) to anyone reading my comments. You disagree with this position but I can support it now just as I have in the past.

With scarcity, I never said your gems are common, not here and not ever and I wasn't making my financial claims with reference to them either. I clarified my position here as I have in the past, you know exactly what I mean yet you choose to confuse the subject by comparing apples to oranges.

When I state that most of these coins are or are likely to be worth a nominal value in the future, its because using the evidence and reasoning I explained to you in the past, it's an entirely logical conclusion except by making assumptions which are completely contrary to how most people actually act which is exactly what you have included in our prior debates.

The reason we disagree and have little common ground on this subject is because you think the consensus should have a much higher opinion of the coins you like than exists. Well, they do not and when someone else expresses it, you find it necessary to try to convince others by exaggerating their merits which is exactly what you did here, again.

I am not trying to intentionally argue with you but I am not going to agree with you just because you don't like my posts.

 

To show that I can agree with cladking on something, I agree that eventually, the perception within the Jefferson nickel series will reflect the actual relative scarcity. I view this as an anomaly to the pre-clad (Or at leas 1970's) era before collectors widely bought their coins at substantial premiums. "Low" mintage "key" dates were seldom seen in circulation or in bank rolls and this is how they acquired their existing perception.

 

I don't believe the gold mercury or the other two coins will make any noticeable difference either. It isn't just because the series was issued in silver but presumably because every US collector already is aware of all three series and either collects it now or prefers other coins more.

Except maybe for the SQ, I am not aware that any of these recent special issues have made any noticeable difference. Even with SQ, to my knowledge the impact on the prior clads (1965-1998) was mostly temporary.

 

I think that's what I said; the market is immature because people don't collect them.

It's the same thing with most things made in later times. It used to be most collectors could be bothered to collect moderns because moderns were made of gold and silver. They didn't collect them because they were rare and desirable but because that's what collectors do. But since 1965 collectors have not been collecting moderns so noone really knows what's out there and what isn't.

 

Yes!!! Exactly my point. You'll use the same argument over and over even as the coins are increasing in desirability and PRICE.

Coins that people never bothered with are proving to be rare because... ...well... ...no one bothered with them.

 

DO NOT Fall out of Love with Moderns.

Just be aware that the Top Pop Market is extremely fragile due in part to the abundance of most Moderns and the fact that, nothing is more motivating than seeing a Top Pop sell for a ton of money!

Understand that the collecting of Modern Coins is for future generations since "most" (unless you get them graded yourself) will not sustain their initial sales price. ALL are subject to being out graded by the TPG's. This is not to say that those Top Pops actually deserve the grades that a TPG may award since I've seen some which leave me scratching my head but it is to say that a Top Pop Price may "NOT" be a sustainable price.

If the US Mint produces a billion of something, the number produced is meaningless if nobosy hangs on to them. Just look at the 1982 and 1983 coins in Uncirculated condition. Due to production practices, releasing practices and an overall dissing of the CnClad coins, very few high grade examples exist and original uncirculated rolls are going to put some serious hurt on your coin buying budget.

Just as those before us have collected and preserved coins through collecting, so shall todays generations collect and preserve coins for future generations.

Nothing can resurrect a coin NOT SAVED and given the general dissing that Modern CnClad coins have taken over the past 50 years, future generations of collectors will appreciate the efforts of those collectors that went against the status quo and built good strong collections of Modern coins.

The here and now only counts for the here and now. Not what could happen in the future. But, caution should be exercised "before" laying out serious cash for a high grade example of a modern coin.

 

Not exactly.

Yes, I think the market is screwy because it doesn't value many scarce coins at much higher price. But the human species is a perverse one and I'd never presume to tell others how to act or think. But when someone says the coins are common and or likely to stay common or that people will never collect them then, yes, I'll chime in.

Part of the reason I chime in at all is that I believe modern basjhing is chasing people out of the hobby and enabling the price list authors to print scewed and wildly inaccurate pricing. Part of the reason these markets are immature is collectors who stick with it despite the bashing have to contend with printed market values that are unrealisticly low. It's a wonder anyone collects moderns. And it all goes back to the hatred spawned for the coins by governmental actions in 1964.

 

I would never collect any coins I grew up with.

 

Indeed!

ANYONE wanting to collect moderns should COLLECT them and not trey to "invest". I know exactly what you'llget if you try to invest and it will be common coins at inflated prices. Some moderns are as common as most bashers assume they all are and some are even common in choice condition. That leaves many dates very susceptible to price changes caused by grading companies rather than by market forces. A collector automatically protects himself by seeking a range of dates and grades rather than what someone tells him is rare. Look at the coins and make decisions not the other way around. Or don't collect them at all and stick with coins in stable and mature markets.