Help with ID and authenticity please

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by noname, May 13, 2016.

  1. noname

    noname Well-Known Member

    I know the 1st one is a Akragas eagle and crab coin, I'd like help determining its authenticity, and if possible, a more accurate I'd. For the second coin, I have no clue what
    It is, so a ID would be appreciated thanks for any help.
    The Akragas coin is 19-20 mm, and the 2nd coin(?) is ovular, around 20 mm from right to left, and 22 mm from up to down. The second one seems to be a coin from the boat(?) and faint lettering on the reverse.
     

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  3. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    The Akragas looks believable to me. Their bronzes must've circulated a long time because so many of them are extremely worn.

    The reverse of the second coin is probably a thunderbolt or winged thunderbolt. The obverse looks fairly feminine (but Apollos and Dionysos often look like women to me). Common combination, but I bet you'll find that it is from Sicily. Try searching CNG's archives with the search terms "AE, winged thunderbolt". You'll get hundreds of results but scrolling through them is quick. When you see likely matches, note what it is and try revising your search, plus then use the information to check other databases and resources.

    Also, it is better to show the larger picture in your post rather than inserting thumbnails which have to be clicked, and it is better for you to do the work of editing your photos to join them into one obverse/reverse image. Anything you can do to make it easier for CoinTalk members to help you will increase the odds of your getting help :).
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2016
  4. noname

    noname Well-Known Member

    Thanks a lot
     
  5. ancientnut

    ancientnut Well-Known Member

    I can't identify the second coin, but TIF is right about the first one. It is from Akragas, Sicily and the three pellets below the crab identify it as a trias (denomination) of this type:
    https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1872445
    They both look genuine to me.
     
  6. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I can't see anything on the second reverse but would comment that the Agragas bronzes of the period are often worse than yours. The one ancientnut linked looks a lot better than most in terms of wear but is so off center/small flan that we lost the crayfish which is clear on your coin. There are several series and denominations of these differing on minor critters, dot count and placement but mint state ones of any are not easily found. Looking at acsearch, the highest grade ones tend to be missing something more important (to me) than detail lost to wear. I'd call your coin a keeper. Mine grades only fine by reasonable standards but, like yours, has all the critters.
    g00480b01134lg.jpg

    Your second obverse show some detail despite the photography but the reverse was lost. Can you try again?
     
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  7. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    The second looks like a bust of Artemis Soteira, so maybe Sicily, Syracuse. If I could make out any of the letters on the reverse, even one or two, I might be able to nail it down. Can you post a better pic?
     
  8. noname

    noname Well-Known Member

    Updated
     

    Attached Files:

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  9. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

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  10. noname

    noname Well-Known Member

  11. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Sweet hint, Z-Bro ... man, you're good

    :rolleyes:
     
  12. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Sicily Akragas AE Counterstamp.jpg


    => Shabaaaam!! (toss a c/m on that baby!!) ... oh my, is that Herakles?
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2016
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  13. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Yeah, how does that saying go, even a blind dog catches a squirrel once in awhile? :D
     
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  14. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Nice sleuthing, Z!
     
  15. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    The Doug in the manger must point out that Steve's coin is defective. The undertype was a hemilitron with six denomination dots. The two dots that should be at the extreme left mirroring the pair on the upper right just did not make it on the coin. Pity. However, I can not recall seeing a better example of this coin. Some have stronger undertypes and some have no detail on the undertype whatsoever but have bold countermarks. Part of me wonders how the slabbers would grade this one but Steve better not be caught submitting it. I'd be OK with a VG 6/5 5/5 (and expect them to label it the "Lagophagus Hoard"). Challenge: find one of these better than Steve's. When dealing with countermarks there is a lot of variety in placement, balance and even some room for opinions as to which characteristics are most important. My grade:
    [​IMG]
     
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