Civil War token / store card

HI,
I love to collect these store cards and tokens but need to buy the catalogue for them which is hard to find. Can some of you give me some input on my recent purchase?
I also love errors!!!

This one has a clipped planchet and a 250% rotated reverse.

The date on the obverse is 1863.
And the reverse reads:
Value Me AS You Pleas

Note the Pleas is missing the "E"

Thanks and if you need a better pic I will remove it from the flip and re snap the pics.

Greg

 

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Yes, Greg, taking it out of the holder, adding a little better lighting, and maybe a little larger picture of just the token, would be a lot better.

I think I know someone who might be able to make a very good attribution for you.

 

Okay, I'll take the token from the 2x2 flip and snap a close up. It will have to wait till tomorrow because its getting dark outside.

Greg

 

Good enough.

 

Hello again, Greg.

I have shown your pictures to a friend that specializes in CWT's.

He has positively identified it as...
9/431a, R7
Value in F/VF is $75, XF=$125, Unc.=$250.

Congratulations!

 

The short answer is, "No." I did some quick googling and I sure you have done this many times yourself. George and Melvin Fuld actually wrote four different "standard guides" if I am not mistaken. My advice is to start with the professionals in numismatic literature:

George Frederick Kolbe
Peter Smith
Remy Bourne
Here in eastern side of the Midwest, we have John Burns.
There are others.

Also, you might go back and ask the dealers you have bought from. Often, they have duplicates of the Fuld books.

As a member, you could run ads in the CWT and TAMS journals, looking for Fulds. As an ANA member, you could borrow the books a few times and xerox like a demon until you can find the edition you want at the price that suits you.

Frankly, I am surprised that there is no Krause book for Civil War Tokens.

I just found this posted to rec.collecting.coins by Josh Moran of Civitas Galleries. It is an eBay auction; however, Civitas is well known as a reputable firm in the ancients markets. If you go to their website, you will see that these guys are very qualified academics. Anyway, here is a link to a current sale of one of the Fuld books:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3942591076

 

I am sure that there more than a few "photography" threads running, but I just want to say that I have been learning that the pictures posted here are much better than we might think.

I do not own Adobe Photoshop or anything like that, just the Microsoft Picture Editor default package with our version of Windows. (We have another, newer install pack with a different picture editor, again, a default.) When I look at an image here in CoinTalk mode, it is often too dark to see anything. If I "SaveAs" and then open it in Picture Editor, I can use the Brightness control to bring up the image.

I have edited pictures and saved them, but now I am not so sure that this is the best path. The original image, dark though it seems, has all the original information. If you lighten, brighten, contrasten, etc., you add, delete or change that information. It is like cleaning a coin.

I also edit a club newsletter and website. So, to print or publish an image, of course, I have to edit it. However, in the native directory, I think I will just make a habit of leaving things as they are.

Anyway, George, nice token and a nice snapshot!

 

Okay my collecting friends,

I have removed the token from it's flip and taken it outside to take another pic.
Would anyone care to guess at the grade for this token?

Jody: you mentioned your friend suggested some prices for this token, do these prices reflect that it has a clipped planchet and a 250% rotated reverse?

Thanks,

Greg

 

Judging by the positions of the clip, it looks like the reverse is a quarter turn out of position, not two and one-half turns (which would be the same as a half turn, wouldn't it?). What am I missing?

 

Being an R7 token (estimated 10-19 examples in existance), and given the fact that privately minted 19th century tokens are often defective for any number of reasons, I find it hard to believe that there would be a premium for this particular example, above that of any other of similar grade.

 

Your probably right but my guess would be that I may own the only one out of the estimated 10-19 examples that has both a clip and rev rotation.

Thanks Jody,

Greg

 

Well Doug, I always believed -

• "%" is the percent sign, not the degree sign.
• There are 360 degrees in a circle, and the inverse of 250 is 110.
• You only post when you are awake.

How wrong can I be?

 

Just to add my mathematics to this discussion - When I look at a compass east is 90 degrees and west is 270 degrees.

 

This has nothing to do with coins and math is not a strong point with me but I'm looking again at my compass.In terms of degrees in a circle is the inverse of 250 not 70? Or am I confusing inverse with reciprocal.Or does it really matter to anyone?It's easy to see I don't have much to do on a Sunday evening.

Bill

 

I did ask about the possibility of the errors adding to the value, and was told that the clip (which he believes is original, BTW), may add to the value. How much? Who knows?

The die rotation is so common that it isn't a consideration.

Also, take note that the prices quoted are from the 2002 eddition of Bryon Kanzinger's "The Civil War Token Collectors Guide".
The identification was made using George and Melvin Fuld's "U.S. Civil War Store Cards".

 

Hi,
I use a guide from my Major Variety and Oddity book (fourth edition) This guide is older but very good reference.

The rotation looks to me to be 250

click the link to see the scale

 

If that is a reply to Roy and GD's posts, then you can ignore this one, Greg.

Privately minted CWT's were not subjected to the same quality control standards as US Mint issues, therefor rotated dies are as much the norm, as they are the exception.

 

Thanks for identifying the Kanzinger book.
pedigreed and limited to 400 maximum copies $40.00
Hardback $37.00
Softback $27.00

The Civil War Token Society website is hosted by Bret Palser of
Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc., as a set of pages on his Indianhead and Flying Eagles website. www.civilwartoken.com takes you directly to
http://www.indiancent.com/market/cwt.htm

The Kanzinger is not in the ANS catalog, but is in the ANA Library.