I recently purchased this coin. Vespasian AE Dupondius, 71 AD. Obv. IMP CAES VESPASIAN AVG COS III, radiate head right Rev. CONCORDIA AVGVSTI, Concordia seated left, holding patera & cornucopiae, SC in ex. RIC II. 266 (RIC 1962 471) When I went to 'Wildwinds' for 'confirmation' of my purchase, I found that their images were (in my view - taking the 'nicks' and 'bumps' into consideration) the same as my coin but 10 years earlier and much less 'crud'. The nicks next to the 'V' on Vespasian, and the nick next to the 'O' in Concordia, being cases in point. Vespasian on my coin seems to be breathing fire, and in the Wildwinds photos you can see the remains of the fire on their coin. Their provenance was: MORTOWN: Vespasian Dupondius US $111.01 May-12-06 Seller Mortown Vespasian duponduis, Rome mint, portrait right, 27mm; REVERSE: Concordia seated left with patera and cornucopia; New RIC 266. Did Mortown sell this coin on eBay, (see ebay photo logo on the bottom R.H.S. of their photos) to a buyer who 'added' some 'patina', and then re-sold the coin 10 years later, to me, or are they (in fact) two different coins? I would be interested to hear your opinions.
It certainly looks like the same coin ... perhaps it's merely the photography? (or perhaps V70 is correct and somebody has made an extra effort to clean it?) ... congrats on your new purchase, either way
Thanks, guys, but; - My point is that, (if it is the same coin), it WAS clean and now 10 years on it has a 'Patina' not that it has been cleaned recently???
I think that's backwards. Ten years ago it had a rather uniform patina and in the intervening years that patina was mostly stripped. You can see "clean" shiny bronze on some of the high points in the new images. I'm not an expert but the coins looks like it may have undergone electrolytic cleaning.
@> TIF, BING, zumbly - I see where you are coming from. Mmmmmmmmmmmmm. I will have to watch it for any return of the B.D. (if in fact that may have been the cause). A concern on any level. Thank you for your thoughts. I didn't go down that (thought) road, so it all helps.
Certainly being the same coin stripped of its patina by a previous owner. The old photo looks like it has a smooth green patina but there is raw metal in spots on the new photo with the uneven (shoe polish look?) over it. Certainly there are people who would do this believing the patina was evil and coins should shine. The other possibility is that the coins are cast fakes from the same 'mother' with matching damage and centering. I would write the seller and ask if he has any explanation for the matter. Years ago, I did this with a coin and was told that the seller could not tell me the name but the collector from whom he got it was famous for overcleaning and ruining nice coins. Zumbly's BD theory has merit and there are people who believe anything Green is BD. Failing a reasonable explanation, i.e. if they are not the same coin, I believe this is sufficient reason to suspect the coins are cast fakes and I would seek a refund or agreement of the seller to pay for a Sear certificate if it comes back fake. I have only bought one coin from that dealer (a Byzantine in 2015 and it seems OK) so I can not comment on them one way or the other.
Was it stored in a PVC flip (or another acidic holder) in a damp atmosphere for 10 years? If it has an oily film, let someone here tell you how to conserve it. I think the answer is make sure it is clean (soak in DI water?) and then stored dry. Or maybe Doug's #2 option, matching cast pieces. Contact the dealer on this one.
No B.D. returning (if that is the case) yet. I bought this coin 12 months ago from a seller that i have bought from before, and I have always been happy with. Their photos have always had the 'green' look to them (photography) because when the coin arrives there is no green on them.
$33 bucks for a nice big Vespasian dupondius ... sounds okay to me I kinda like the looks of your over-cleaned OP-example (yah sure, it would have been nicer if they hadn't removed the sweet green patina, but for $33 => a Vespasian dupondius) http://www.cngcoins.com/Search.aspx?PAGE_NUM=&PAGE=1&TABS_TYPE=2&CONTAINER_TYPE_ID=1&IS_ADVANCED=1&ITEM_DESC=Vespasian AE Dupondius concordia&ITEM_IS_SOLD=1&SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_1=1&SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_3=1&SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_2=1
I would say this is the exact same coin, and not a cast, just based on the pictures. Clearly the wear pattern and centering are exactly the same, but the tell to me is the reddish surface in front of Vespasian where he's "breathing fire," lol. I'd buy the stripped/overcleaned theory based on that and the areas that are just too coppery.
Well, the Acetone didn't do anything. I suspect that 'overcleaned' IS the answer, with the bronze/copper showing through amidst what is left of the Patina, (but why anyone thought it necessary to clean it in the first place is beyond me). In hand the coin doesn't have the wide variations of colour that the photos (with artificial lighting) show. Thank-you everyone, for your thoughts. I shall sleep well tonight.
