Pretty wild. http://www.libertydollar.org/news-stories/pdfs/1180211017.pdf (edit: I'm not affiliated.. but I thought it cool enough to grab a couple.)
Delmer & Frank,they're illegal to spend,as they're not coins.I wouldn't be too surprised if those behind NORFED are prosecuted. Aidan.
I believe that we had quite a big discussion on this topic a while back about the pros & cons of using them I have to say that I like the design and might well get one to add to my token collection. :kewl:
Yeah, I've always wanted to pick up a few of these, even though they're way outside the 'norm' of what I usu. collect. Occasionally, there's a short article about the Lib. dollar in CoinWorld anytime there's an update on all the litigation, but in the end, I don't think they have a shot in hell of winning anything.
And if you think about it. They require Federal Reserve notes in order to obtain their currency. And they charge WAAAAy above spot price. Their one ounce silver "coin" is $20. I've got one of those from 2005. It is a $10 coin. I talked to an associate, he says that I can send it back to NORFED and get the new one. It would only cost me $2.00 shipping. Screw that. They are worse than the feds.
It seems their stand has genuine entheusiasm behind it.. and it's not just a marketing ploy. A grading company might slab one of these, right? as a SC$ maybe? or as "privately minted"?
it's a private currency, like disney dollars and chuck e cheese tokens. two points i want to make: 1) they're perfectly legal, so long as both the buyer and seller agree & recognize that liberty dollars aren't u.s. dollars. that's called bartering. 2) they're perfectly illegal if you try to pass them off as genuine currency. that's called conning someone. just as someone was arrested for trying to spend a million-dollar novelty note at wal-mart, the same will happen if you try spend liberty dollars pretending they're just as valid as u.s. currency. i'm bringing this up because according to their website, that's exactly what the makers want you to do. spend it whenever & wherever you want, all the while pretending nothing is out of the ordinary. i support bartering between two consenting individuals, support spending liberty dollars at businesses displaying a "liberty dollars accepted here" sign, and i support currency backed by precious materials. but i don't support passing off private issues as u.s. currency. if i ran a business and somebody tried to pay me with a franklin mint piece of junk, i'd kindly tell the person to come back with something i can pay my bills with.
So... let me get this straight... according to the US treasury, real metallic silver is illegal to spend... and fiat paper currency unbacked by any collateral whatsoever is considered "real"? Isn't that rather interesting? It would seem to me that this is exactly the situation that Bernard is trying to remedy. His stated goal is to provide a working metallic medium of exchange that will cause the US government to go back to a metallic standard. We've got a government issuing worthless notes, which have "value" only as long as a large enough percentage of us continue to believe in them. We tend to think of prices as having gone up over the years... but that is merely the inevitable result of a dollar that has continued to fall. Only the costly miltary support of the dominance of the dollar in petroleum markets has kept the dollar from tanking completely. China is sending us cheap plastic crap and buying gold, land, and corporate assets with that capital. When they have enough gold they will be able to create a true gold-backed currency in the Yuan, and there will be no further need for anyone to hold dollars. The dollar will fall below 10% of its current value, destroying much of the American economy. China will have won the war without firing a single shot. The only way to prevent this is for the US Treasury Department to abolisgh the Fed and return us to a silver/gold backed currency. The stated goal and purpose of the Liberty Dollar is to convince the Treasury that this is, in fact, the only course available which can and will preserve the republic. In this sense, the issuers of the Liberty Dollars are true patriots and deserve every bit of support we can give them. I urge you to donate to their legal defense fund and purchase as many coins from them as you can. If they are defeated in court, and the Treasury does not listen, then our economic defeat and the loss of our republic becomes virtually inevitable.
Tom,here's an article; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Dollar . Here's another article about a similar type of scam; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Dollar . Aidan.
if i minted my own coins out of pure gold with my face on it, and tried to spend them at mcdonald's, i'm sure they wouldn't hesitate from calling the cops. same goes for if i printed my own paper money with my face on it and tried to spend it at mcdonald's. it doesn't matter what something is made of, it's the principle. if you try to spend something as "circulating money" when it's not legal tender, you're breaking the law. the liberty dollar people went to great lengths to make sure "legal tender" appears nowhere on their products, and will tell you their products are in fact not legal tender. but according to their website, they want you to spend it as if it were. http://www.libertydollar.org/ld/spend-liberty-dollars/howtospend.htm
I think you fail to understand the point. There is absolutely nothing illegal about offering your gold coin at McDonald's. They have the option of accepting it or refusing it, as they do with any kind of money you offer. (they can and do refuse $50 and $100 bills at their option) And there would be no interest on the part of police forces to respond to a call of someone trying to spend a gold coin.
You obviously missed the points I made on my first post. There's a difference between bartering and pretending privately-made issues are genuine currency. I already said there's absolutely nothing illegal about bartering. If I offered them a counterfeit $20 bill, it's irrelevant whether or not they accept or refuse it. I've just broken the law by attempting to pass along something that isn't legal tender as if it were. Read this article: http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2004-03-11-million-dollar_x.htm Look beyond the metal and look at the big picture. It doesn't matter what Liberty Dollars are made of. Their company make coins in gold, silver, copper, and they issue paper currency in multiple denominations. It's the action that is illegal, not the item. Bartering Liberty Dollars is perfectly legal. Your arguments agree with me on that point. Spending them as if they were real is not. Your arguments have totally ignored me on that one.
these liberty dollars are as good as turtle shells or geodes. If you want to trade someone and they accept it, it's currency
I'm sure it will be easy enough to find a judge to convict them of something. The outcome could be completely different upon appeal, however. The government has its work cut out for it in trying to demonstrate that a crime has been committed, and making it stick. The word of the Justice Dept, Mint, or Treasury probably isn't enough to make the use of the Liberty dollar illegal between consenting adults. Maybe they can get them on evasion of sale tax or something like that.
Unlike the US Mint, this is a mint which DOES make money. Can't wait for the impending criticism of the money they rake in from those who buy these "coins" and never circulate them. Ruben
