world coin grade help

Grading is firstly an estimate of the amount of wear on a coin. Other factors are involved like damage and original mint lustre, etc. but forget them at first.

A coin in circulation will wear, the highest points of the design will wear first, often but not always these are fine details so it is pretty easy to say if they are at all worn. Any wear and the thing is EF at best. The more worn, the larger the details that are smoothed away till you get to a metal disc where it is just possible to decide what it once was.

Any site or book giving you grading examples for any coin will give you just enough of an insight into the levels of wear to enable you to at least approximatly grade any coin.

Some things are trickier, like incuse designs (sunken rather than raised) but most coins are not like this. The finer detail you just pick up as you go along.

As a coin selller on ebay I would usually decide what grade a coin was then describe it as one grade lower because ownership always makes you optimistic, see the many ebay listings of F to VF material described as EF or better. I'd try to make the picture really good so the buyer could see for themselves, and I do not recall ever getting any low prices or any complaints.

Professional coin graders try to make grading seem as mysterious as quantum physics wheras it is really about as difficult as chopping wood. Collectors the world over do it every day without breaking into a sweat, and lots of money changes hands based on these 'home made' grades, but ultimately it is the meeting of minds that have the same opinion that is the striking point for a deal, not what a plastic box has written on it.

 

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Will do!
John

 

Looks below Ef since luster is not present, even in the protected fields. Sometimes a coin without luster merits an Ef grade but I would be hesitant to grade a common modern like that xf. But some might say it's an Ef and they are just as right. I'm glad that person over there chimed in because it's always good to get a more realistic view like that. I have run into a lot of middle grade and higher world coins that have high cat values in xf as opposed to Vf or lower. I've found that few collectors are willing to buy such coins unless at steep discounts or they are graded by a top TPG. At least that's how it is here, and from what that person in Netherlands said, it sounds widespread

 

I got this out of the quarter bin yesterday and want to know what you all think. 1962
Greece 2 Drachmai KM# 82, mostly I want to see if I am getting any better at grading. This coin has alot of luster on it and if I was to compare it to a US coin I'd say it would be ms60 or better. But like has been said before I dont know what the coin from the country looks like in hand. MS60 according to ngc world coin is around $25 ms63 is $125. I am posting my coin in pic's but I found a listing on ebay that I wanted to post as well "ebay coin is not mine" mine looks just as good but with a couple of noticeable differences . http://www.ebay.com/itm/Greece-Paul...0af6cb&pid=100338&rk=1&rkt=23&sd=191562414136

 

There looks like some minor wear on the edge of his ear. Other than that, it looks unc.

 

Greece 1962 KM#82, 2 drachmai, metal-copper-nickel, mintage-10,096,000
grade/value from Krause catalog
XF40-$1.00 MS60-$5.00
I would say your coin is AU grade probably $2.50-3.00 value. a very common coin.

 

This is a great post except for this statement above. In the older standards still used by many "across the pond" a coin with a very small amount of wear was graded EF. Decades ago, astute American dealers would "pick-the-eyes-out" of the foreign dealers (buy all their EF's) and get an immediate upgrade $$$$ to AU!

Today, most have smartened up and adopted the US standard where an AU still has NOTICEABLE wear. And unfortunately, so do many coins graded MS-60 to 62!

 

IMO the photos show a coin that is Unc "enough". There is slight "discoloration" on the cheek that may be rub so AU-58 at the least for a conservative grader (who likes to give away his coins at cheap prices) The shiny color is not good, may be the lighting - should look more frosty to be MS-63 or 64. So: This illustrates why coins cannot (usually) be graded by photos - unless taken by @SuperDave and some others here.

 

The trouble is, you can only sell them at that grade to Americans who aren't using the standard established across the pond. When in Rome....

I don't grade World coins by US standards, either.

So, Uncirculated, or not? More importantly, Proof, or not? Even the best images are deceptive....

 

That's my point so you agree how the standards are applied...yeah!


Additionally, you may wish to get with the program...the TPGS's do grade foreign coins by US standards. You may be leaving lots of money on the table for others . How are your eyes feeling?

Almost forgot: IMO, the posted English coin is a "dog". Nevertheless, I would take it if it were free. Without seeing the surface at an angle to judge its "mirrors" (Impaired proof?); otherwise, it looks Uncirculated - MS-61 or MS-62 max.

 

Part of my agenda is to persuade people to quit caring what the TPG's think. They're the ones - in your own accurate words - who willingly assign Mint State grades to coins with visible wear.

 

For the record, you could have shaved in either face of that coin; the color was incredibly delicate in hand. I got sizable money for it. The buyer - it went back home to Great Britain - was certain it was a slightly-impaired Proof. Like I said, even the best of images are deceptive.

 

1887 coins in this grade are usually found in 1887 Jubilee sets. This makes 1887 a very common year for good EF to UNC Victoria silver. Because it was the Golden Jubilee years, the number of coins set aside informally in jewellery boxes and backs of drawers is far higher than other years. I'd find any 1886 or 1888 at least twice as rare as 1887 in EF condition.

I really cannot see why anyone would take exception to my description of anything not UNC as EF, and I'd be happy to let any US buyer cherry pick my EF coins because they would be priced to give me a reasonable profit; it is immaterial to me what they call them when they get them home or what they sell them for.

Market price differentials between one place and another keep the money-go-round going round.

 

That's what I thought my coin was, broken up from an Uncirculated set. Great Britain were past masters at the minting process long before then, and it's quite reasonable to expect Prooflike strikes from their fresh dies. Especially with it being the Jubilee year.

 

That is why it would be helpful if posters would tip the PL coins so the mirrors blast.

 

IMO, that's too bad. I don't wish you any luck on this (IMO) useless "joust." My agenda is to teach folks to LEARN HOW THE KNOWLEDGEABLE "Successful Kings of the Market" at the TPGS grade so they can use it to their advantage while STILL APPLYING their own personal grading standards to a coin.

I too don't give a "hoot" about how ANYONE grades a particular coin. As you have shown in the photo of the English coin above - somebody liked it!

 

Yep, call 'em what you wish and make sure they are sold at full market worth. I have no problem w/that. Just know that the grade description will be changed upward even though the price may not appreciate that much. Bet we three are all in agreement and saying the same basic thing.

 

Thank you for this thread. The comments are useful even when we argue among ourselves.

I would like to return to Eric6794's post of March 30th.

The 2 Drachma (picture) looks too shiny to me. Could it have possibly been treated with acetone or another chemical to enhance it color?

Also for a novice, such as myself, what are the telltale signs that a coin has been cleaned or wiped in the past? I am specifically thinking of Irish coins that have the national harp symbol. If I see any dark matter between the harp strings, I immediately think the coin has been tampered with.

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Sullykerry

 

The light reflection from the surface makes the coin look cleaned; however, I'll bet it is not. Light is all important for photos. The English coin does not look PL but apparently it is. The Greek coin does not look "frosty" but I'll bet it is. Different lighting should change the look of that coin completely.

NOW, You can call all the disagreement around you as an argument. That's what my wife says. Like, "It's a dreary day today." Me: Honey, I think the sky is bright blue and sunny." "QUIT ARGUING WITH ME. You always argue with me!"

There are some strong, long held opinions on CT about various subjects. I for one don't regard any discussions as arguing. Perhaps the younger guys never grew up in the "real world" of "Sticks 'n Stones." It's a real shame what we have become.