Our 1869 S-3

Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by eddiespin, Mar 25, 2016.

  1. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    We are taking another look at this, and I thought we would get your learned opinions. What do you call this divot in the cheek? I will leave it open-ended. Do not mind the bad pictures, as we do not need a grade. The date closeups are to show it is the S-3. Or, if it is not, something is goofed, there, particularly in the 69. Hey, thanks.

    01869SETOR.jpg 01869SETDT.jpg 01869SET69.JPG
     
    TJ1952 likes this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. tommyc03

    tommyc03 Senior Member

    Just guessing here, but possibly struck through some foreign matter and not yet toned because of the depth?
     
  4. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Stevearino likes this.
  5. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    Thanks, guys. Dave, I hadn't thought of a "late" detachment turning up underlying copper after the rest had time to react to the environment. I thought of a lamination, but the red puzzled me.
     
  6. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    I dunno; it just seemed obvious to me that a "fresh" area had to have been created after the toning. Then again, not having similar thought processes to me is a compliment to you. :)

    This is a woodie, which means the darker areas are purer copper than the usual alloy mix and will therefore oxidize even more quickly than a better-mixed planchet. I'd be surprised if this coin wasn't completely toned by 1900, especially in the more polluted atmosphere of that day. Or, within a decade or two of being moved into such an atmosphere, if it spent some of its' life in better rural air. Although all copper needs is oxygen to patinate, like other coinage metals a bit of sulfur in the air won't hurt. :)

    It's actually worth contemplating some time, how a coin (which by nature won't be stored on edge) can tone so evenly on both faces when one side had to have been against a surface. Unless they all did so in bags, in which case you'd expect more crescent toners from contact with adjacent coins, or terminal-stage toners from the atmosphere being so foul that next-coin contact was overcome. How did this coin come to be?

    In this case, I think it is terminal-stage album toning, and it's even on both faces (you'd expect the face closer to the album back would tone faster) because it can't tone any further; it's in (gloriously-beautiful) chemical equilibrium. I would further postulate (while I'm wildly speculating) that the slight difference in toning on the high points of the obverse - cheek, chin, feather tips - happened from contact with the closed cover of the album slightly altering the surface characteristics in those areas.

    And with such irregular edges the fresh area has to be either PMD of some sort or a lamination. The rest of the coin has obviously been well cared for, having no marks notable in your images (I would so own this coin :) ), so I'm led to conclude it's a detached lamination.

    Woodies are nice indicators of how alloys aren't always as monolithic as we think.
     
    tommyc03, eddiespin and Stevearino like this.
  7. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    Or it could be something as annoyingly trivial as something thin (bit of paper?) stuck to the coin for years and finally falling off.
    It prevented toning like the rest of the coin.

    I believe I have something similar on my 1806 quarter.
    It's an untoned silver area I suspect had some sort paper/adhesive on it that was removed before the coin was slabbed.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    I see what you mean on that baby, @kanga. Mine is actually a divot, though. It looks like a chunk popped out of it. The irregular shape I think militates against PMD, too.
     
  9. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    You got to know this coin, didn't you? Sure you did. Those observations not only wrap it up, they put a pretty pink bow on it. Really, thanks.

    Here's something. You've seen those old Lincoln woodies with the uniform graining on both sides. That explains this IHC, right? It's not the surface contact that does that, but the composition. The hints of color? As you alluded to, some factory, smokestack, pollution, some turn-of-the-century industrial environment. Credit maybe an album for affecting the rate and dispersion of the color.

    I have to get this in a sealed holder. It's still in a 2x2. I could get it graded, I guess that would help preserve it. It's pretty much all downhill from here, though, if I don't take better steps to protect it from the environment, I think.
     
  10. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    I don't believe it'll get any "worse," but it can't hurt to hedge your bets. :)

    Unlike the silver toning process, copper oxidation reaches the point where existing patina protects it from any further oxidation. As a woodie, the currently lighter areas may still be in play; I dunno.
     
  11. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    I didn't know that, Dave. You're well-researched. I was worried about it turning black like silver, lol. We haven't looked at our IHCs in a long time, those pictures are maybe 6 years old, but this toning is stable, still. I think I will hedge my bets and get it into a more secure holder. I won't grade it, because I like being able to take my coins out, every now and then. I know, I know, that's odd. But it's just the way I am and there's nothing anybody can do about it. :)
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page