What's wrong with this Morgan?

Something has been done to that coin, for sure. I go with the theory it's been cracked out of a details slab. I looked at the seller's negatives: fakes, replicas, cleaned and overgraded. Enough there to send me in the other direction.

 

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AT or dipped not likely, likely cleaned before but impossible to tell because it is a scan which will give coins a off color dead lifeless look.

 

Looks like it was under-ground ...

 

Way under ground .....maybe as far as China.

 

yeah, a person would have to be senseless to buy from centsles

 

Would I want this coin in my collection , no . Do I think it's real , I can't see anything wrong with it except color and perhaps dipped to death . I'd love to see her in hand though .

 

I agree , most likely cracked out from a detail slab .

 

Not a fake. This seller is a known seller of problem/ overgraded coins this coin is in my opinion a cleaned and retoned details coin which is why the too uniform color and the dead looking surfaces. Fake no. Dreck yes

 

XF details, cleaned and fugly.

 

This +100000000000000

Since it happened again Brooks point was worthy of bringing up again.

 

a burned morgan

 

The date position and mint mark position match 1893-S VAM-1.
1893-S VAM-2 has a tilted mint mark, unlike the coin in question.

The coin is genuine, but probably "altered surfaces". Or maybe "cleaned/re-toned".

The seller of that coin is known for having won the PCGS grading contest one year.

 

True. The guy is really good at grading. I can't understand why he does some of the stuff he does. Must be the money.

 

Who in their right mind would even consider that date uncertified? There are so many fake, mutilated, and altered 1893s coins out there. The purchase or even exploration of that date in anything but certified would be an act of total insanity. I recommend to people who don't know the Morgan series to get familiar with it, before buying ANY dates, as it is one of the most doctored, faked, and manipulated series out there. It doesn't matter if the seller was one of the most respected on eBay or a total dreck peddler--the whole idea of even looking at uncertified key Morgan dates makes no sense whatsoever. It is no way to learn about Morgans. I shudder at the wisdom of even considering a coin like that.

 

Thanks to all who has commented on this thread, being new to Morgan collecting I realize I still have a lot to learn.

 

Despite this seller's record of overgrading and selling cleaned/cracked Details coins in "legit" holders, I don't recall ever seeing an actual counterfeit in one of his slabs. His essential numismatic skills - and brains; you don't get to his selling level without a degree of smarts - preclude him from risking his record on something that stupid. He makes plenty of money in the niche he dominates without taking those chances.

 

Good. You buy it. I wouldn't buy it with your money.

 

From Bowers book (I was just reading this, again, last night)..."Absolutely and positively do not buy any 1893-S dollar that has not been certified by a leading service, and AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE offerings of uncertified coins "from an old estate"".

 

Go figure out how many obverse dies were used, Dan.... then come back and do your little corrections.

 

Maybe you should go look up the VAM listings again ...

It is important to present accurate information when discussing such things as an expensive key-date coin. It is more than just a "little" correction. Your original post was not factually correct.

There are two varieties of 1893-S Morgan Dollars (VAM-1 and VAM-2). Both were struck by the same obverse die. There were two different reverse dies paired with that obverse die. VAM-1 has an upright mint mark, same as the coin pictured in the first post of this thread. VAM-2 has a tilted mint mark. You stated that the coin in question is a VAM-2. It is not. It is a VAM-1. Look here:
http://www.vamworld.com/1893-S+VAMs