1893-CC Morgan Question

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by JP1021, Mar 13, 2016.

  1. JP1021

    JP1021 Member

    Hello everyone. It's been a while (let's just say cointalk wasn't on xenforo the last time I posted) I have a question about a morgan I had graded a few years ago.

    Specifically this one (Warning: large image when clicked)

    [​IMG]

    I was just browsing through old images and the image of the reverse caught my eye. There is an odd line running through the A and M in America. Is this a normal thing? I don't remember there being any special varieties for it. Anyways, I figured if anyone would know, someone at this great forum would.

    Thanks!
     
    Paul M. likes this.
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  3. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    It's a die crack. You have a late die state of VAM-2.
     
  4. JP1021

    JP1021 Member

    Paul M. likes this.
  5. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    No problem. We aim to please here at CoinTalk. Stay a while. :)
     
  6. JP1021

    JP1021 Member

    Well, like a good novice coin person on a collector forum I went out and did a little research into what that means. That makes this coin a little more special, if I'm not mistaken. I literally had no idea.
     
    Paul M. likes this.
  7. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    It means this coin is a fairly common variety for this year and mint. But, it also means we know the exact obverse and reverse dies used to strike it! And that's pretty cool, if you ask me.
     
  8. JP1021

    JP1021 Member

    I have to agree. That's really cool. This coin is an investment in the future, as it was three generations before me. Really interesting that we now get to add that little bit of info to it.
     
  9. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    Hmm, actually, now that I look a little closer, I'm wondering if it's a VAM-2a (which would be much rarer and much cooler). I don't see the reverse V-clash at the wreath, but I'm wondering if the PCGS pics just aren't showing me enough detail here. Maybe someone more experienced with VAMs can say for sure. :)
     
  10. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    I will comment soon, but I have so little Internet bandwidth it will take (literally) fifteen minutes to display the PCGS images. Five minutes in and I can't see any of the eagle yet. Bear with me.
     
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  11. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    I'm sorry, I can't even download the images at all on my connection. This is why you so rarely see me in grading threads here. All I can do is offer sight-unseen commentary.

    VAM-2 is a fascinating variety, likely the last Morgan struck at Carson City. A run of some 12 branch mint Proofs was struck with this die pair, from a later-state, polished-down version of VAM-2A. There are also Business Strikes known in that late stage, I'm guessing just prior to the Proofs which ought to have been the very_last coins struck.

    2A should include a prominent double clash of the hair vee on the reverse. The Proofs show only the tips of that clash. The obverse should have a noticeable clash of the wing into the neck/chin intersection, towards the bottom of the transition curve. Only the coins with the "n" clash visible are 2A, the others (both earlier and later die states) are considered VAM-2. You should also see die cracks on the baseline of DOLLAR, with a crack extending from the O to the rim. All of these cracks are polished away on the Proofs.

    For the record, there are too few attributed 1893-CC's at ANACS to form any idea of rarity. They've graded 2337 1893-CC's in total, and only 106 of those are attributed.
     
    Paul M. likes this.
  12. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    Nice coin. Ms 63?
     
  13. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    Ok, I'm back to VAM-2. I thought I saw a faint wing clash on the obverse and was trying to convince myself I saw something where the V-clash should be, but the V-clash is definitely not there. I also can't see the "n", but it's not exactly clear to me what I should be looking for from the VAMWorld photos. :/

    Still a great coin.
     
  14. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    That's the best large image I have ever seen on CT!
     
  15. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    That's the actual full size of the images those of us who shoot coins with dSLR's and dedicated lenses are creating. They have to be radically downsized to post here.
     
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  16. JP1021

    JP1021 Member

    MS64+
    PSCG Certification Link


    I think that may be because PCGS took it. :) I wish I knew how to take such clear images.

    Is there a way of certifying a VAM, or is that something that's just known about the coin that makes it more interesting?
     
  17. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Any time you wish to budget, say, $400 for a bespoke camera rig (if you don't mind buying used) I'll be happy to teach you how to duplicate that work. It requires a fairly steep learning curve - you have to learn the mechanics of photography - but that kind of quality is not difficult for the layman to achieve. I honestly don't have any kind of hosting capable of linking images at the actual size I shoot them. :)

    PCGS and NGC attribute a limited subset of the more popular VAMs on their slabs. ANACS attributes them all, and CT member messydesk will encapsulate and attribute raw coins via his Variety Slabbing Service.
     
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