Morgan people who like toned DMPLs

Yes, exactly. As a pure percentage of total, you'd expect things like MS63 1881-S's to dominate Heritage since their slab Pops exceed 50k. Which, BTW, is the reason for the custom title under my username.

 

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I would agree with some of what is stated above. However, I would take a second to refer to the PCGS population reports to show the relative scarcity of a given date--1882. The reason why I picked it is the prevalence of many popular CC dollars from the GSA horde. Despite the fact that the mintage of Morgans in 1882 at Carson City was 1,113,000 (comparatively low for a Morgan), the survival rate through the GSA horde was 53%, and is believed to be even higher.

A look at the population chart for 1882 as an illustrative example may be interesting:

1882cc in PL and DMPL:

2509 in PL certified
2209 in DMPL certified


1882o in PL and DMPL:

688 PL certified
538 certified.

This pattern continues during the 1880s. What I am saying is that the survival rate of the CC dollars from 1882-1884 in PL and DMPL is fairly high, compared to that of the comparable New Orleans issue, despite far greater mintage for the 1882o. The pattern holds--3704 in PL, and 3749 for the 1883cc. The 1883o PL is 2554 in PL and 1678 in DMPL.

My point is that a certain fascination with cc dollars (with the exception of the more rare ones--1881cc, 1885cc, and of course 1889cc and 1893cc), the cc dollars are fairly common, relative to price, and survival rate. Well-struck coins from New Orleans in PL and DMPL are still uncommon, relative to mintages. Thus, from a collectible and investment strategy, while all PL and DMPL mintages are a good bet, certain dates are way better in terms of potential. Those dates may not necessarily be the more glamorous ones---everybody loves cc dollars, but the GSA ones have rendered them fairly commonplace.

 

Just over 11% of Heritage's 1882-CC offerings are PL/DMPL. I would expect that, due to the GSA sales, to be much larger, since so few of them were faded from circulation or inappropriate handling. But they aren't.

The number for 1882-O is 8.7%.

I've never compared any of this to slabbed Pops, nor will I because I'm not interested enough to give money to PCGS for a membership. It's just the roughest rule of thumb for me, that's all.

 

PCGS population reports are free, as is CoinFacts. There is now no information PCGS makes available, other than your submission status, that requires any membership fees to be paid.

 

Pops are free now? Where have I been?

Don't answer that.

 

Great analysis, MD.

As for the CC...I think because the very name evokes the Wild West and frontier living....don't get the same thing from New Orleans, San Francisco, Denver, or Philadelphia.

 

I agree on the CC front. Way to many DMPLs to get excited about them. On top of it, way to many mediocre DMPL's as compared to stunningly nice DMPL's. When you really study the pops the CC pops are just crazy high. A few of the gaps in my set are CC DMPL's, I just have no desire to hunt for them since they tend to be so common and you can always find them. There are CC dates that are tough in DMPL, so please don't take it as a blanket comment. 1892 and 1893 should be be lumped into the same thought.

 

I agree with your evaluations 'vette. You are the DMPL expert here, and I could not agree more--the common date cc mirrorlike coins are exactly that--common. There are too many ugly cc DMPLs out there, and few nice ones--the nice ones are commanding moon money, as well. I shudder to even think of 1893cc or 89cc DMPL prices, so I empathize with the holes in the collection. Even 1885cc DMPL coins have gone absolutely insane with regard to pricing.

 

Don't sell yourself short. I agree Todd's experience (he gets to handle all the nice toys to shoot ) leaves him eminently qualified, but I learn as much from you as anyone else here.

 

Thanks. I appreciate it. Todd's specialty are DMPLS. While I know him to be an experienced Morgan artiste, he has an amazing collection of those mirrorlike beasts that makes one's eyes twinkle.

 

Any reason the 1889 and 1893 Carson City's are tough to get in regular or DMPL ? Haven't gotten my book yet, I know most CC's weren't needed and the mint was a sop to local silver mining interests. Did something happen to those particular years/mintages -- they got used and/or destroyed unlike many of the other commons that ended up in bank vaults and the GSA ?

 

Yup, gsa survival rate plays a big part

 

There are - near as I can tell - only 6 die pairs for 1889-CC and 5 for 1893-CC. That's a good reason. Not many chances to create new DMPL's.

That said, the entire production of 1889 could theoretically have been done with two die pairs (200k strikes/die is a realistic goal if you were lucky). Makes for an interesting line of thought. 1893 is more understandable since each die pair probably had a reasonable lifespan and perhaps they cared less since they knew the end was near.

 

1893 is interesting to me and others because it was the beginning of what would be the longest non-Depression economic downturn in our nation's history, The Panic of 1893.

This Panic, like others, helped the silver crusaders and one William Jennings Bryan.

 

Here is a fun note to ponder on the 1889-CC's, the pop shows the DMPL pop to be double the PL pop. Go figure.


Edit: spelling

 

The 89cc is a situation of low mintage and low survival, so it has the usual key coin issues. However, the 1893cc is another beast--low number of DMPLs totally out of the realm of Morgan coinage. There were only 7 certified by PCGS, with the highest being MS 64 DMPL. Talk about rarity!!!

 

Absolutely not. There are nice coins across the board in terms of submission, as nobody knows what the seller's / submitter's intentions are. TPGs have been criticized for many things, but a bias for grading with customers would immediately kill their businesses.

 

Submittance bias in terms of what is more likely to get submitted not in terms of Heritage gets better grades for being Heritage. The most valuable and better coins are always more likely to be submitted and put up on an auction site like Heritage than a 50 dollar example from a purely economic standpoint of the cost of grading. It can lead to population reports being dominated on the higher end or make PL/DMPL look more common than it really is because of all the examples that just are not worth the cost of grading

 

Wow, that is low....any reason ? Did they change the coinage/mintage process that year ? Lower-quality silver ?

 

No, MD, what I meant by submittance bias was those with coins that are very nice and which ALREADY exhibit PL or DMPL qualities are the ones most likely to get submitted. Including those border-line.

If I have 10 MSDs that are banged up and hit, and no reflectivity or frosty appearances, I may say it's not really worth it to send them in because they are all going to be low-60's at best or even lower (AU, EF, etc.). OTOH, I have 10 MSDs that are very nice...very little damage to Liberty's face and the fields....and very frosty and showing lots of mirror-like qualities, THOSE I am likely to say let me spend a few hundred $$$ getting them graded.

I meant bias on the part of coins submitted, not on the part of the TPG.