Weird Byzantine

Byzantine seals are also pretty awesome and the quality is much better due to the way they were struck and the material used:

Byzantine Lead Seal: John, Archbishop of Ephesus

Obv: Cruciform invocative monogram - Θεοτόκε βοήθει τῷ σῷ δούλῳ
Rev: Inscription of four lines - Ἰωάννῃ ἀρχιεπισκόπῳ Ἐφέσου

"Mother of God, help your servant John, archbishop of Ephesus"

 

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Regarding Byzantine coins and seals. I would say the situation is a lot like Late Roman coins. The bronzes were done with less experienced celators. The gold coins and seals, (since seals were from powerful officials, you want to have a nice artistic work), were from the higher grade celators. There are many Byzantine gold coins I would put up against most other ancients in terms of artistry. True, the Byzantines did not strike in such high relief, since by this time coins were a commercial product and needed to be more usable in commerce. That hurts their artistry. But compare a Byzantine gold coin and make the ancient greek coin be of the same relief, and I believe the Byzantines hold up well.

Also, you need to read about WHAT the Byzantines were trying to depict before you criticize their art. At times, like around Justinian, they weren't TRYING to be realistic. They were trying to convey the NON-worldly aspect of the emperor, how is is closer to God than you. Without knowing the intent of the art, its very hard to judge its merits IMHO. Actually, in the last century of its existence, the celators were actively trying to portray the emperor with as FEW LINES as possible, since at that time THIS was the measurement of highest artistic accomplishment.

 

Conveying the non-worldly aspect of the emperor seems almost like imitating their previous Roman Caesars who were " deified". Would that be adequate for a newly-born Christian Empire? I mean could it be an excuse to strike such ugly coins.

 

Below is a list of Byzantine coins, namely Sear-2370, which is attributed to Andronicus II Palaeologus. The second coin is mine and the first coin is the BEST example I have seen, albeit, I missed out on it when it came to auction. The final image is from the Ashmolean collection of Byzantine coins. Note that this is a rare coin. How's that for ugly

Byzantine Empire: Andronicus II Palaeologus (1282-1328) Æ Trachy, Thessalonica (Sear-2370; DOC 849)

Obv: Nimbate half-length figure of St. Demetrius facing, holding sword; retrograde B to left
Rev: Winged and crowned facing half-length figure of Andronicus, holding model of city and labarum


Baldwin's Spring Argentum Auction 2014, Lot 57





From my personal collection




From the Ashmolean Collection of Byzantine Coins

 

Cool example, Q-Geek ... today I seem to be feelin' the Byzantine vibe!!

Ummm, I have this Byzy-baby to toss-in ...

Andronicus II BI Trachy
Date: 1282-1328 AD
Diameter: 24.2 mm.
Weight: 1.5 gr
Obverse: Six pointed star.
Reverse: Andronicus flanked by two large B

 

That is a very nice one! Better than my raggedy one that I have:

 

Another rare coin that fairs much better than the museum collections in Ashmolean, but somewhat outdone by the BEST specimen I found...

Byzantine Empire: Michael VIII Palaeologus (1261-1282) Æ Trachy, Thessalonica (Sear-2297; DOC 147-50)

Obv: The Archangel Michael standing facing, holding labarum and sword
Rev: Half-length facing figures of Michael, holding cruciform scepter, and St. Demetrius, holding spear, supporting staff surmounted by cross within circle between them

Numismatica Ars Classica Auction 95, Lot 704





From My Personal Collection






From the Ashmolean Collection of Byzantine Coins

 

So, 7Calbrey, don't give up. Try going for Quality over Quantity. Forgo the lot purchases and purchase one coin with better quality for the same funds or save a bit more. You'll be happier in the end. And this applies to any type of ancient coin you collect...

 

Under Andronicus II most flans are badly split, as seen above. Here is one with both a split flan and an error strike -- a brockage!


21-20 mm. 0.74 grams.
DO V.II 778. Sear 2458. LPC page 232, 6 "1294-1320"
Probably the six-petaled flower obverse.

If you want quality coins, don't look for AE of Andronicus II. However, if you delve deeply into late Byzantine coins and can appreciate relative quality, some CT members have shown us really nice ones!

 

Michael VIII, Billon Aspron Thracy, The emperor standing alongside St Michael, Demitrios bust, sear 2296:



Michael VIII, only a fragment of his head, sear 2290, note the two heads, these cupcoins often have them.


Andronicus II and Michael IX, Assarion, Sear 2435. Arcangel Michael, Christ blessing the two emperors,



Andronicus II and Michael IX, debased Hyperpyron(these tend to be debased heavily, mine has fairly more gold content than usual), Mary rising from the wall of Constantinople, Christ blessing the two emperors. Sear 2396.


1,88 gram and 22mm.

The aboves, perhaps except from the gold last one, one can for sure say are ugly and crude obviously without any doubt.

 

There will always be differences in opinion on art quality. I like photographic realism but occasionally I run across something that I find attractive or interesting like these horses. I can say nice things about Byzantine coins for a long time without mentioning 'beauty', 'realism' or 'workmanship'.

Picasso

Nasir al-din Muhammad Qarlugh (bilingual Arabic/Nagari AE Jital) 1249-1259 AD


Neither will be mistaken for a real photograph but I would be proud to be able to draw either.

 

here are some bargain bin byzantine coins i recently picked up. i guess i didn't pay anything for them, they were in a lot i paid money for specifically to get some other coins.

i recently picked up a coin a spent 150 bucks. it's very nice. but i've spent much more time with these two junkers in the last couple days than my shiny, pretty coin. i enjoyed researching these coins, finding out what they were, reviewing the anonymous follis classes, learning about constantine x. to me, these are some of the things i enjoy most about coin collecting. again, i get why people don't like stuff like this....but i actuallydo.




Anonymous Class E Bronze Follis (Constantine X: 1059 -1067 A.D.)
O: Christ, R: IS XS / bASILE / bASIL, Sear 1855, 25 mm, 8.1 g






Constantine X Ducas. 1059-1067. AE Follis
O: Facing bust of Christ, R:Crowned facing bust of Constantine, wearing loros, holding cross and akakia. Constantinople mint, SB 1854, overstuck on unknown type. 27 mm, 6.0 g.

 

Well said chrsmat71! Coins are meant to be enjoyed and learning everything about them is the best way to enjoy it. Don't just look at the pretty images, but have an understanding of what the legends are saying too. That is why I spend so much time transcribing the coins...

 

Hey, obviously "all" ancient coins are amazingly cool (congrats to all of us for choosing such a neat and rewarding hobby) ... but since I have a choice in which ones I want to collect, I prefer to focus on the examples that are interesting "and" pleasing to the eyes ...

Ummm, it's a bit like finding a mate ...

Sure, I want her to be smart, funny and considerate ... but a hot body never hurts, eh? (merely bonus points)

 

They can be found in the Byzantine series Steve. Trust me. The crudeness of manufacture just makes it harder sometimes. Look at the gold coin Herberto posted. In that condition they are very common. Yet, I spent years and was able to find one with the virgin Mary clearly seen inside the Walls of Constantinople. Higher grade and detail coins exist, as do higher artistic coins, sometimes it might just take a while to track them down.

Btw, no offense to your coin Herberto. Most of these are in similar condition to yours. Most were either double struck or weakly struck due to the curved flan and die.

 

That coin is notorious for being struck poorly and finding one in top shape is extremely difficult. I would appreciate it if you can post your coin here as I would love to see it. I would also like to re-iterate that there is no offense to Herberto's coin . Attached is an analogous coin, but a trachy with the same depiction of Mary. I just love this coin and I am glad it is in my collection...

Byzantine Empire: Andronicus II Palaeologus (1282-1328) Trachy, Constantinople (Sear-2334)

Obv: Bust of the Virgin, arms spread, within the walls of Constantinople with 6 groups of triple towers, sigla in lower fields A - X
Rev: Christ standing on the right, facing three-quarters lefty, holding Book of Gospels, placing right hand on the head of Andronikos prostrate in proskynesis, Greek legend in fields IC - XC (right) and ANDRONIKOS EN HO DESPOTIS O PALLO (left)

 

Most Byzantine coins are quite a way down on my priority list. I would like to have a Jesus coin with a nose (like the one below)!

Anonymous Æ Follis Class A2 (9.16 gm), 969-976 AD, Constantinople mint. +EMMANOVHL, facing bust of Christ; clusters of pellets in nimbus +IhSUS/XRISTUS/ bASILEU/bASILE, inscription in four lines.
DOC III A2.39; SB 1793. EF, glossy dark green patina, small flan flaw. Attractive. $200. CNG Auction #38

 

Hi everyone,

Great coins, as always!

I have one Byzantine coin:


Class B Anonymous follis
Romanus III or Michael IV, 12 November 1028 - 10 December 1041 A.D.

I really like it and hope to get more someday.

My brother hopes to get a gold coin sometime in the future.

Erin

 

Sweet lookin' coin, Erin

cheers

 

Thanks Steve!