What's a "good" minimally "high" grade for Ancient coins?

Absolutely speaking, a "good" and "high" grade coin can be determined by the Sheldon 70-point grading scale. But, as far as what's available and the common grade for those coins, what would be a relatively uncommon and exceptional ("high") grade for Ancient coins?

And, I understand that the term "high grade" is subjective to each collector - what I'm getting at is a little more mathematical. For example, two standard deviations away from the average condition (three standard deviations seems a bit high like the unbelievably rare kinds, while one standard deviation is a bit like "above average").

If a coin is 100 years old, you can expect some wear and finding coins in, say, MS-65 is tough. Anything higher gets exponentially harder, at least from what I've seen (maybe a little lower or higher than MS-65). For moderns, what I'm getting at is the (all too common) MS-69 or MS-70 grades.

However, if a coin is 1,000 years old, what would be seen as the minimal condition to be seen as "high grade". XF? AU? I'm sure it depends on the civilization, series, etc., as "Ancients" refers to a wide range of years, geographic locations, circulation/use, etc. But, is there a generally "high grade" minimum you've noticed?

Thanks in advance!

 

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The grading of ancients is far more complicated than moderns, and the rules for moderns do not apply, since all ancient coins are cleaned.

I would suggest reading Doug Smith's pages for an excellent introduction. You can find them here.

 

IMO, XF. A knowledgeable coin collector SHOULD know what an XF coin from anywhere or any era should look like. But with ancients the "style" of the design, The condition of the planchet, and the centering are important to arrive at a grade so it takes experience. Auction cats are a good source of training for a beginner. Also consult you ancient coin dealer.

 

You need to forget the Sheldon scale when it comes to ancients.

Just read Doug's page that John linked then come back.

Don't look and NGC or ANACS slabs and think if you see enough of whatever they're calling MS/AU/whatever you'll be able to learn.

Every ancient coin is unique due to the way they were made.

 

As JA said, grading ancients is complicated. I have read Doug's pages several times and go back to them at times. I put my thoughts on how to pick an ancient coin in my blog -
http://rrdenarius.blogspot.com/2014/01/my-thoughts-on-coin-selection-pinarius.html

A few thoughts to contrast modern and ancient coins:

• Ancient coin dies were hand made. You may have trouble finding two examples of the same die. It is hard to do statistics on small populations.
• Ancient coins were hand struck. It is difficult to identify two coins from the same die.
• A 2000 year old silver coin is black. Get over cleaned coins.
• A 2000 year old bronze coin has an oxide coating. The condition of the coating is a big part of the value of the coin. Cleaning and leaving the patina is important.

Grading an ancient takes more time, but is worth the effort.

 

I do like how NGC breaks it down to sub-grades, like in the 'net's example below.

Maybe if they broke it down for modern coins that would be nice, too.

The top TPGs already break it down into four categories from what I understand for moderns. They just give it a single grade.

This one below must be worth a small fortune... as it's beyond the 3 standard deviations for the same type.

Thanks, that seems to be the "high" grade that's shown on Doug's website from John Anthony's link above (MS condition is an emphatic "No!" according to Doug lol).

 

Jack makes a good point. Don't study the slabs! Every other coin gets graded AU, and we don't even use that grade in ancients. The modern collectors think they have a problem with gradeflation - it's nothing compared to ancients, where almost every coin coming out of NGC was overgraded coming out of the blocks.

 

Oh ya the even put a star on it!

 

Like grade school? lol

I'd still want that one though.

I've been looking for one of those for a while now...

 

That's would be an extra $500 to a dealer trying to sell the coin to a collector of moderns where a star or a plus means something. Don't get sucked into this scam, iPen!

 

Absolutely - it looks like a great coin, if you could get it for the price of a raw one. The slab means nothing.

 

Do yourself a favor and completely ignore NGC slabs. THey do not grade like ancient collectors grade, they do not use the same grading scale as us. An NGC XF I might call a VF, or aVF. I have seen some of their XF I would call a gF. As for your posted coin, it looks like a VF stater. That is how real ancient collectors would grade that coin.

Btw, we do not even RECOGNIZE an AU or BU grade. No such thing in ancient coins.

 

Wait, so is raw preferred over slabbed for ancients?

 

Is there a recognized authority among TPGs for ancients?

 

All the live long day. There are a handful of collectors that insist on slabs, but generally they are cross-overs from the world of moderns. The vast majority of hard-core collectors of ancients abhor the things.

 

You're going to find many of the collectors here are anti-TPG. There are collectors who still like their slabs.

 

David Sear is the only one I know of. And the coin doesn't get entombed.

 

David Vagi mans the crew at NCG, and they do know their stuff. If you're buying an expensive ancient, it's not bad that it's in a slab, since their opinion IS worth something, but it would be bad to overpay just because the coin is in a slab. Also, you should know that NGC does NOT GUARANTEE AUTHENTICITY!

 

Gotcha. So, how do you all encapsulate them? Magnicaps?

Or, is there a special breed of capsules for ancients?

Since they tend to be tiny and all...

 

Pretty much any way we like that's safe. I use PVC-free flips, some use envelopes, others trays.