Best "guide" for grading coins

Is that really the same thing? Wasn't that caused by the creation of the intermediate mint state grades other than 60, 65, and 70? 65 was deemed no longer slicing the Bologna thin enough, wasn't it?

The newer problem is the 55-63 range of grades. We ended up at a place where AU58 coins were desired much more than MS60 coins were, and the state of grading changed to make those 58's become 61's and 62's and even occasionally 63's. Essentially what happened is MOST (oh maaaan, not all) numismatists decided there was no such thing as "it can't be grade X because it has attribute Y". That HAD TO GO AWAY! What if it has all kinds of OTHER attributes that argue for grade X or even higher?

 

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I was told "they" are working to improve (update?) the ANA Grading Guide, NOT that the work was done and finished!

If this is true, it probably will change my opinion. For now, until I do my own research into the 7th Edition, consider me to be totally IGNORANT on the usefulness of the ANA book -

Nevertheless, the Bower's book will be hard to beat.

 

NOW WHO IS CORRECT? One poster says no changes in photos except perhaps for two; while the other says extensive changes made to photos.

If the photos have NOT BEEN CHANGED they are useless in today's market and my opinion stands: "THE ONLY PART OF THAT BOOK THAT IS REQUIRED READING IS THE INTRO and THE CHART USED TO GRADE $."

SEE: That's why you cannot trust anything you read and need to find out for yourselves. WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

 

C'mon everybody. The 7th edition has been out for over a year already! Cover photo is a Peace dollar and the predominant background cover color is blue. ALL the photos are now full color and at higher resolution.

 

Since I don't use the book (6th Edition on rare occasion) I am ignorant!

Now for a question. Have the photos been updated or JUST COLORIZED. And...who is correct you or Doug?

Hope this gets resolved before the game

 

I believe he was speaking to the text alone, and in that he is almost right. There is some change in the Indian cent section in the 7th surrounding the Fine grade, of which Q. David Bowers wrote. I can't speak to your photo question since I literally BURNED my 6th edition, and my 7th is an Apple iBook version. One note that gets repeated often in the 7th - grading mint state coins is more art than science and is especially prone to even top level professional disagreement. The guide states within it that is best used for circulated coins.

 

Then after all this posting, it seems like the text is improved (GOOD/EASY less cost); yet the photos are the same (VERY BAD/HARD to fix and VERY COSTLY) from the 1980's except they are pretty.

Guess the book is STILL OBSOLETE as an up-to-date photo guide and THAT IS EXACTLY WHY I DON'T USE IT (except on rare occasions), I ONLY recommend we all have a copy and READ the printed word anyway so we can learn something from the PRINTED WORD content. Please see my Post#6 from DAYS AGO

 

I guess maybe I don't WANT a thoroughly photographic based standard and want more up to date descriptive text, but SOMEHOW able to not get hung up on a single design element. That's not asking too much, is it?

 

You, me, and others can do what ever we wish. It's your call, my call, and their call. I hope we have not confused the OP.

As I wrote before. IMO, the TPG's don't use any of the books we have recommended. If you need a "grading crutch" (except on rare occasions [EORO]) you are not qualified to be working inside a major service grading room, and you are not qualified to call yourself a professional numismatist either. Those who use grading guides [EORO] are "rookies." The lucky one's they take grading seminars where the guides are given out.

Have you or anyone on CT EVER seen a dealer consult a grading guide (EORO) at a show? I didn't think so . Has anyone here on CT ever seen an ANACS or ICG grader consult a guidebook when giving free opinions [nice going guys ]? I didn't think so. Has any one here on CT seen Mark Salzberg look at a grading guide when giving free opinions for a very short time and by appointment at a show. I don't think so! It's too bad he is so busy and NGC cannot afford to have one of their full time experts on hand during the ENTIRE TIME the show is open to give opinions on coins for us little guys. That would be REAL customer service.

My original advice still stands. Learn to grade for yourself and use every source available - including the photo's in UP-TO-DATE places. I'm done here. Bye and good luck

 

In the 7th edition (IDK the page number - iBook version, remember?), the ANA guide says it all. The rest is filler. Grading is simple - you need only 4 things:

1) A good magnifying glass.
2) A good light.
3) A good memory.
4) 20 years experience.

Now go out there and get that!

(Too bad lots of extra #4 can negatively impact #3, huh?)

 

My ONLY quarrel with what you write here is that the TPGs don't even PRETEND they use the ANA standards, do they? If they say it anywhere, I can't find it. They are fairly transparent that they are using another method altogether - market(ing?) grading. The ANA guide stuff is technical grading, and the TPG stuff is market grading (you can fill in the -ing yourself from now on). What am I missing?

 

Doug,

I want you to know that YOU are the only member of CT that could drag me back to this topic

I guess you really didn't bring up the pictures in the guide book.

I have work to do . Now as promised, I'm done

 

Thanks Kurt,

IMO, you are one of the "Big Fish" here THANK GOODNESS!

You my be missing this: The ANA Guide is a BASTERDIZED attempt at technical grading. According to one grading instructor, Technical grading NEVER combined the marks on a coin and the amount of wear FOR COINS BELOW UNC. ANA did: AU Typical vs AU Choice.

 

In the ANA's grading courses as they are taught now, they don't even insist on their own (technical) standards as in the guide (7th). They use them ONLY as a starting point and then dive headlong into modern market grading. I swear, man. They've been doing it since the late 1990's, when I took both Grading Coins Today (notice the third word there) and Grading Mint State Coins. The ANA itself has literally stepped back from their own guides, insisting instead that they are but one waypoint (the technical grading one) on the way to truth.

 

I guess the expectation that grading will forever be immutable and unchanging is either one part of my brain development I never got, or it died during my stroke. 50/50 shot.

 

Fair Warning!!!



Here's the "next big deal" in coin grading. It IS coming, and this time, it's going to work. It was tried over 20 years ago and failed miserably - a complete crash and burn. But I swear to you it's coming back, with a vengeance, although I can't say exactly when - computerized grading.

What caused it to fail last time (the 90's) was that it required human written algorithms and amounts of data storage and teraflops of computing power we did not yet have. This time, no programs will need to be written and the data processing will be distributed and storage will be in the cloud. It will rely on artificial intelligence. We will not have to tell a program what it takes to be a F-12 or a MS-67 or whatever. All that will be required is to scan the slabs by the millions and the AI will figure it all out by itself - without even having to write any code. After a few million "this is a MS63 Morgan dollar" and similar loadings, the AI will take over. Heck, the system will even read the grade and coin type right from the slab label, not even data input will be required for existing slabs. And soon thereafter, the scanners will know even raw bust halves' Overton numbers.

Imagine being able to put a reference target on a small multi-light scanner, place any raw coin on that target's surface (to determine color, brightness and luster), hit SCAN and the AI system will (I swear it will) repeat EVERY TIME the exact same grade within not one point, but 1/10 of a point if we want it to.

Mark my words. AI is what is making self-driving cars possible. It will eventually be turned to coin grading.

 

I guess all those "know-nothing-jokers" will be out of work.

 

Here's where my mind gets blown - AI will allow a firm to customize grading to a collector's own tastes. If I am a toning fan, I will be able to get a customized grade based on toning emphasis. If I'm a mark counter, I can get a custom grade based on emphasizing mark free coins. Same thing for luster, or satinness (grades for 2005-2010 mint set coins), or strike strength. Even a specific matching color on copper or bronze. Mind? Blown.

"Duuuude, I like your 1850 large cent in AU, but it's about .20 density too dark for my set."