"Thanks but NO THANKS..."

I too am tired of the "TRAP" I am in a very dificult position due to losing my job and starting a new one -$20,000. I am still trying to make ends meet and finding myself selling off my coins to eat. I just went to the local coin show to sell some type coins, and I thought I had a decent relationship established with one of the dealers Well, I had 1 coin in the lot he sold me for $120 and wanted to buy it back for $75. And he proceeded to tell me all the coins I had were Cleaned wizzed Smoked (that was a new one) and all of the coins we bought from dealer in the same room as him. When I buy a coin I write the amount I paid on the back of the 2X2 so I know what I have into them , Well my total paid out was $550 and I was offered $300. I now have them listed on EBAY with a reserve of $300 I couldn't see losing that much money face to face so I decided to hide behind my computer and lose it anomamusly. It just seems when you want to buy a coin it is awesome but when you go to sell it back to the people you got it from, It is miraculusly Cleaned or something, I am losing faith in the hobby, I jknow threy have to make a living but where is the honesty? I don't mind payin $120 and selling for $100-$110 but come on..........

 

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Things are much better now than in the old days but many collectors still don't understand the markets. The only way to consistently pay only 10 or 20% mark-ups is to buy very expensive coins. Cheaper ones are sold at higher mark-ups. It's easier to get good deals in the cheaper coins but dealers have to charge more to stay in business. In the past they'd buy at one grade and sell at another but this can't be done so easily now. It is important for collectors to sell some coins from time to time to learn the markets. If you don't have anything to sell than just pick up something that looks ike a steal and see if you can get more for it. Most collectors will find the the prices paid are lower than they had expected. They'll also learn that there are different markets within the coin market and that prices vary considerably with the buyer. Look in the back of Coin World to gat an idea of what dealers pay. But remember that they still do their own grading and some are stricter than others.

Don't be discouraged. As you learn what the coins are worth you'll start paying less and the spread will get down to 10-20%.

 

Let's see if I understand what you said.

I'm thinking that would be the price troyster paid for the coin, or $120.oo
But you started out by saying:

This would be the $75.oo offered by the dealer.

So if the selling price is $120 and the buy price is $75, then the retail price would figure out to be approximately $100 using your way of figuring.
This is where I'm having the problem. Why would anyone be wiling to pay more than the retail price for a coin that is at least already marked up 15-20%. I guess old Barnum must have been a coin salesman.

 

I went to my dealers today with some silver rounds...I asked for $8-$8.50 per ounce...he wouldn't buy...I came home and emailed some friends and worked out a trade...and the guy emailed me back and said that I offered too low...and he was offering to buy/trade at $8.75 per ounce.

I don't know why but it seems like dealers don't like to buy coins from collectors---they like to sell to us but not buy.

Speedy

 

Too right,I don't blame you!

Ben,too right! I don't blame you for rejecting the idea of slabbing.To me,slabbing has actually done more harm to this wonderful hobby of ours than good.

Do you agree with me on this?

Aidan.

 

Yes, Aidan I agree that slabbing is one of the NEW evils associated with the hobby. As long as there is no TPG regulation and industry wide accepted & USED standards there will be problems with slabbed coins. If the wine industry can do it the slabbers can if they would stop counting their money for a while and start working together. TPGs and Snake oil are one and the same in my book...

 

Ben,it is scumburgers like SGS,Stevesgiftshopp,& Aboncom that has plunged slabbing to new depths.That is one reason why the numismatic trade over here are against both slabbing & the 70 point grading system.I am sure that they will also reject the British slabber's 100 point grading system as well.I'd rather stick to the good old-fashioned 7 point grading system.

As for several grades of Unc. & several grades of Proof,come on,give us a break! It is either Unc. or Proof,or it isn't.

Aidan.

 

I like coins,silver mostly. but any old, heck even new coin will do. I grew up in the suburbs of Long Island. We had fruit stands and dairys and gas was still 28 cents when I turned 12. I had always thought that Dallas was nearly as big of a city as New York. I was 29 when Desert Storm started. Did time stand still in Texas? I think that letter was that guys way of saying..."Hey, look I am with you(the common man).'' But like so many other times before as now, its just a ploy so you don't feel so bad giving him your money to slab your coins. I mean if he was around when buffalo nickels were common, then he must've been 50 years old in 1990. And I always thought that squirrels and such were ok if you were dirt poor, but in Dallas there had to be an A&P or a Safeway or something.

 

I look at the top two TPG's as a starting point, their grade is close on most coins so at least you have that. Also resale is better with a slab over raw with rare coins, so that is another plus for them. The downside is as others have said you can't see the real coin but have to view it through the slab. However for the highest grade rare coins I think the slab is the safest place for them, too many times I have read the "what is this coin worth' after they dropped it or cleaned it. If it had been in a slab that wouldn't have happened unfortunately. But some like slabs and some don't, and that is fine too. I just think if someone is shelling out big money for a coin then it is wise to have a second opinion on it and that is what a slab actually is.

 

Ben's right,slabbing has done more harm than good.There's no harm in buying a coin in a slab,as long as you are paying for the coin only,not paying for the slab as well.

Aidan.

 

I see nothing wrong about certifying the authenticity and grade of a coin. Its not a either/or proposition. Neither is the grading companies opinion the final word on condition of a coin. I have some slabbed coins, and some not, depending on the risk of authentetication.

I'm not buying anything over the net worth more than a few dollars that is not graded. Grading is a starting point unbiased opinion of the authenticity and grade of a coin. In that, these are not carpet baggers, but providing me a valuable service, one which I couldn't do on my own.

In addition, grading companies higher coin experts, giving people like Zane career options. Good for them. Good for Zane. Good for me. The religius fever opposed to third party graders is irrational.

I won't comment on the American West verses the East Theme. Most Western stated have populations that wouldn't qualify them for statehood any longer if they needed to qualify under the laws that allowed them to go from Territorial status to state status. The anti-Eastern and anti-City content is unbecoming and bigotted. I met a lot of it in the Army in my day. It was unbecoming and bigotted then as well.

Ruben

 

Why should I NOT pay for the coins authentication and certification? Maybe expensive coins should only be brought by the biggest experts, or not at all. Thats what would happen in the real world without the slabs. The market would be flooded with unauthenticatable fakes, and without a reliable way to conduct commerce in the coins, when enough people got burned, the market pricing structure would fall apart. I wish I could buy a used car in a slab. The best we have is perhaps Counsumers Reports, which is not as effective as a slab.


Ruben

 

I wont waste money on grading services...They are just collectors trying to make a living off of other collectors if you ask me. You have to buy coins thus you have to do business with coin dealers so it is best to shop around, try them out, and find the good ones...to be honest, the good ones are collectors who have another profession, love coins, and happen to buy and sell them as well...they arent trying to squeeze every last dime they can get from you so they are less likely to have as high mark ups and are more likely to hear your story about that coin you want badly and offer it up cheaper...sadly I have to say that if they are trying to pay rent on a store front and make a living as well...its probably not going to bode well for the prices...the coin shop is probably not the best guy to deal with. I have gone to coin shops found coins I like, held off buying them and then found them from online dealers for less...because those online dealers dont have the same overhead and expenditure.

There are VERY COOL dealers out there and VERY COOL collectors. On another forum I post a coin I have that I like a lot? A great guy has another denomination with the same design and just sent it to me for free...THESE are the people who are refreshing and this hobby needs more of....because thats what it is for must of us whether we are heavily into it and heavily knowledgeable or just dabbling...in the end its just a hobby and when it becomes your only means of income...I think thats when it gets tainted...thats just me and my general opinion...it shouldnt be a business...or should I say it shouldnt be a conventional make all the profit you can get business...

Anyway...I think of myself as highly knowledgeable in some numismatic areas...I am well versed in roman coins and if I wanted to , I could probably start buying and selling at a tidy profit, but then I would just be another middleman trying to squeeze the collector...and frankly, I just love coins and I dont want to sell them.

So in the end, the third party grading company, on the whole...the way it has become, is a joke...

I admit it is nice to have PEOPLE out there like David Sears and other numismatic experts one can send a coin for authentication to ease ones mind that you dont have a fake...but the whole expanded grading system is not for me...all I need to know is if its F VF XF UNC BU and I can determine that myself or with a bit of help from fellow collectors...I wont pay more because its slabbed...I WILL buy a slabbed coin...but its not anything on that slab I am buying...a slab is just something to put a nice coin in to protect it...nothing more, nothing less...

There are places for the experts IMO...writing a book...authenticating, teaching and lecturing...grading whether its am MS-60 or an ms-63...I dont care...thats just me though...and there is still room for my kind. If a person whats to slab...let them slab...I dont care, its their life and money...I have always wondered why people care what other collectors do...if someone wants to clean coins, I dont get all upset about it...I dont care about slabs...but if someone else is sold on the idea...go ahead...no skin off my nose...

 

How about those slabbers who also sell coins. Coins which are ONLY graded by their slabbing company? If a person owns the slabbing and then owns the coins and then offfers them for sale, well you get my point. There is too much of an opportunity for dishonesty.. It has been pointed out many times before, and happened in a few instances. MS-70 Buffalos come to mind...

I'm sorry you've limited your collecting in such a way...

Maybe you should talk to Zane about some of his recent experiences in grading. I have...

Please enlighten us on what you speak of. Some states no longer meeting the requirements of statehood. Or the people not qualifying for statehood, LOL... PLEASE ELABORATE for this sounds bigoted (with one t) to me as well...

Ben

 

mrbrklyn

Come on guys - Please don't enlighten us in this area of the forum as this is no longer about coins.

 

If you are going to continue this discussion of statehood requirements, do it in the Politics, World Events and Religion opt-in forum. This thread will be closed if there are any replies to this post, or any further posts on that non-numismatic subject.

Fair warning.

 

For what it is worth, I have slabbed and unslabbed coins. living in the swamps, (have some gators in my back yard) it is just easier for me to go online. The ones I have slabbed, I am glad I do. The ones that I do not have slabbed I am glad that I do not. Most say collect what you like. Think that is a good idea.

Eveyone have a good memorial day weekend. let us all be thankful that we are able to collect what we like.

Back to the monk marathon

 

Great THREAD and discussion! I have learned a bunch from reading EVERYONE's posts! I do believe that this is the way it should be. Thanks to all who posted! I really enjoyed reading this thread! And to you Ben, for starting this discussion, THANK YOU!

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