Coin Shows

Are you speaking of coin show in general or just ancients?

 

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Not if you get mugged. Part of my concern was security. I didn't want to walk around NY City with a few thousand dollars worth of coins in my pocket. I did look into alternate parking, but in the end paid for the convenience of having someone else deal with my car, and the security of taking the elevator to the garage of the hotel and have it waiting for me. I don't have a carry permit in NY State, and anyway, the best way to deal with trouble is to avoid it altogether.

 

Being from a smaller town in southwestern Ohio I don't get the opportunity to get to many shows. I went to one last year in Cincinnati but just as a looker. I attend as many local auctions as I can and would love to attend more shows. Next time I won't feel as intimidated as I did at my first. I hope coin shows remain & even become more popular in my area.

 

Shows in general. I already know that they are slowing way down in attendance. I am most interested in why. There are far more collectors now than in any time in history, but they arent going to the shows. I realize many people live in areas which prohibit their ability to attend. Has the internet changed things this much? I've always seen coin shows as a way to socialize and to get to know my customers better, but that aspect also seems about to die off. I guess I'm wondering why one would site behind a computer screen than go to a show if they had the choice.

 

@Ken Dorney I would enjoy meeting you, hopefully learn something from you, and even buy some of your coins! And I would much rather do this in person. Sadly I'm not in a place in my life where the expense would be worth it. I would spend my entire coin budget to go to one...unless you plan on attending the London Coin Fair this year? After that...we'll just have to see where I'm headed. Who knows, maybe next year I'll be in one of the states that have the big coin shows.

 

I used to do the London Coin Fair back in the 1990's. It was a magical time. That's where I first met Basil Demetriadi in person, though he has been buying coins from my paper catalogs for years before that. London was not as expensive as it is now. I could do some business for a few days and spend the rest of the week as a tourist! Good times!

 

The exchange rate in general kills me. One day I'm going to make it to a show!

 

Hello,

I don't do ancients. I do world coins. I have only attended two coin shows...both had about 50% US and World percentages. I found the dealers on the US stuff to be rude as a rule and the coins very much out of my price range. (Disabled/Fixed Income). The dealers of World stuff were more accessible but I still found things high. Everything was singularly packaged and I was unable to make any deals for bulk which is how I like to buy so I can take my time to go through everything.

I am currently traveling on the road and stop at coin shops along the way to buy bulk when possible. I usually can't find coin shows or the time/venue isn't workable with my plans. I like coin shows but I don't seem to be able to discuss "shop" there and it all seems aimed at making a buck. I do this thing as a hobby and while making a buck would be nice it seems all I do is spend them.

 

This thread brings back many happy memories for me. I never have attended many coin shows -- an occasional one in San Antonio, Los Angeles, Long Beach, Phoenix or Tucson -- but I always enjoyed the ones I did attend enormously. I have purchased most of my Roman Imperial coins through the mail or at Coin Shows (long before the Internet) from fellow collectors I personally knew and trusted. Ed Waddell (I bought my first Abafil Coin Case from him when they were first introduced here)
in particular used to send me coins through the mail with a note such as "If you like this coin keep it and send me a check, or if you don't want it just mail it back to me" (no credit cards or PayPal then) -- I bought some fine coins from him that way including an excellent Nero aureus. I think the collecting fraternity in general was a little friendlier and more trusting back then.

But about my experiences at coin shows:

I didn't attend my first one until about 1951 (I think - my memory isn't that good these days) in San Antonio -- I cannot remember any shows in the UK during WWII. Just as now, there weren't many ancient coin tables at that show. I seem to remember Joske's of Texas having a table -- I think most large city Department Stores used to have coin departments back then -- I know Joske's in San Antonio did -- I bought many nice Roman Imperial coins from them.

I really enjoyed the early Long Beach shows -- up-coming dealers such as Victor England and Tom Cederlind had nice selections of Ancients and I bought several coins (mostly Julio-Claudian Sestertii) from them. To me, there was always a lot of friendly discourse and camaraderie at those shows.

The last show I attended was at Los Angeles a few years ago (I can't remember exactly when) and I had a good time there renewing old acquaintances (in particular Ed Waddell, Victor England, Tom Cederlind) and swapping stories. I subsequently had some serious medical set-backs when I turned eighty-five and haven't been able to attend Coin Shows since.

Here is a pic of me, a happy guy, at my last coin show in Los Angeles:

​

The cropped-out person on the right is Victor England -- coin dealers in general do not like to have their photographs displayed.

Anyway, thanks for this thread -- happy memories indeed!

Sorry to hear of the passing of Tom Cederlind ..... RIP ..... he was a good friend of mine.

James

 

There is a coin show in Ocala, Fla next weekend.
At Motel 6, on I-75, exit 354

 

Do you know if there will be any Ancients vendors?

 

Fantastic post! It made me nostalgic for something I've never experienced.

 

Hopefully you can hit up the coin circuit again!

Great post.

 

That's certainly the problem with eBay. Most ancient coins on eBay are junk or fake, and it's hard to find what you're looking for when you have to trawl through hundreds of useless offerings. The word "rare" is over-used to the point that it's meaningless. I challenged one dealer on his use of the word, and he said he considers a coin to be "rare" if there are less than 50 similar coins on offer at the same time.

 

Certainly a problem! On Ebay if it says "Rare" I wont look at it. I have seen the most common coins called this, often with lots of exclamation points and other characters. But as Doug points out, its the amateurs who are doing damage. Just because one has an internet connection and something to sell it doesnt make a dealer. I am amazed that the majority of even halfway knowledgeable dealers dont own a single book! And as to pricing, well, I have had conversations with many collector turned dealers. They feel if they bought a nice coin 10 years ago for $100 it should be worth $1,500 now. They just have no idea.

 

To answer your question, Ken, here are some of my random thoughts:

• The internet has changed commerce completely and has made it almost completely unnecessary for a consumer to physically buy anything in person. This is now how many (most?) people now prefer to shop.
• We are moving away from in person social interaction in general, especially younger people. They don't use the phone, don't communicate in person, and don't care to. The social aspect of a coin show is not interesting to many of them.
• Modern pressures. We should have more free time with modern conveniences but we don't. We are busier than ever and under pressure to make ends meet in time, finances and commitments. Trade associations are collapsing, service organizations closing; the volunteer organizations that used to be staples in our society are dying. Taking time to go to a coin show has been de-prioritized for similar reasons.
• When buying coins at shows, it's been mentioned in this thread that many of us now rely on the internet to help make our decisions. I think some of collectors feel naked at the shows, under pressure to make decisions without all of the information we are used to having buying on the internet. I know I do. Of course, this overlooks the greatest piece of information which is "What does the coin look like in hand?" but new collectors don't know that is as important as it is.
• Some dealers aren't as nice as you are because I think they get tired of the retail slog of dealing with time wasters. Sometimes they aren't nice at all. I know that my experiences today are much better because my key dealers know me and are delighted to see me and my checkbook show up at their table. It hasn't always been that way.

I love NYINC and San Fran, as I've mentioned. But, I've got one foot in the older and younger generations...at least I'd like to think at 48. I think coin shows are dying though and that does make me sad. I've seen the same with local gun shows where I live and other hobbies. It's our changing society.

C

 

Well said, Carthago! I particularly agree with points 2, 3, and 4.

 

I live far from any city with a coin show. Every few years I get the itch and travel to the Summer ANA (Chicago 2015 and 2014 and Boston in 2010 where I had relatives I could stay with). When I factor in the cost of travel and, in Chicago, a hotel, the coins cost more than on the web. Auctions are better for high-value coins and dealers do not usually mark low-value coins as low as they can be found on the web. In the old days when wholesalers brought bags of hoard coins to shows (which I did not see these last three times) with "pick" prices it was a great way to get lots of inexpensive coins. The NYI may be different, but European dealers and wholesalers were conspicuous by their absence.

Yes, I bargain and prices do come down, sometimes quite a bit. But they may just have been too high to begin with. In 2015 I was seeking a late Roman silver argenteus. One dealer with a good reputation had a nice argenteus at $800 and when I asked for his best price he came down to $600. I thought about it, went to where I could find the internet, and looked on vcoins. He had that (exact same) coin for $600 on vcoins! His "best price" was no discount from the vcoins price. I did mention it, but he was not inclined to go lower. I thought raising the price for the show was poor form. As others have mentioned, at home we can search alternatives more easily than on a show floor. (I did find a nice argenteus, but not from him.)

Chicago in 2015 was fun for the experience of seeing a lot of coins and meeting some old friends, but many of the dealers had many of the same coins they had had the year before. At the prices dealers had on their coins I can easily understand why they would not sell in a year--or two. Some dealers (I'm thinking of Barry Murphy, Andy Singer, and Kern's non-slabbed coins) price their coins to sell and what they have this year will be gone by next year. However, many dealers do not roll over much of their stock in a year. I will not go to the Summer ANA in 2016--I've seen a lot of the coins already.

If there is something from my want-list at a show I will offer a fair price (One I could find it at elsewhere were it offered). That is usually enough to get it. But, there are so many more coins offered on the web than at a show that I have filled far more want-list wants from the web.

Collecting used to be a pretty solitary pursuit. We had our own coins and, if you lived in a big city of a million people (I don't) there might be a small ancient coin club. You could make few like-minded friends, but half of them would not care about your new coins at all. They care about their coins, not yours.

Now we have CoinTalk (and some other forums and lists) and can share with others remotely. Some I would not recognize on the street but consider friends. You will get a lot more positive feedback about your coins here than you would at a coin club.

At the 2015 ANA there were few collectors. If a table had a customer, the chances were 50-50 it was another dealer. Some smaller dealers walked the floor to sell to, or buy from, dealers at tables. But several collectors at a table was rare. I was asked by several dealers if I had material I wanted to sell to them. So, I infer that some dealers go to shows hoping to buy. If you were a former collector with your old collection to sell, I could see taking it to a show and seeing what dealers might offer, or terms they would give for consigning it or putting it at auction.

We have many on-line venues for buying coins--many more than will appear at any show except maybe the New York International. If I lived near a metropolitan area, I'd drive to its coin shows and hope. Coin shows are fun. But, I do not think they are a particularly good way to improve a coin collection.

 

I see another difference. I once felt a sense of loyalty to dealers who sent me their lists and tried to fill mine. I only got lists from about ten dealers and bought from at most eight of them a year (a few were lists from people who bought my name from someone and had nothing worthwhile). Last year I bought at least one coin from 25 dealers and more than ten from only a few of them. Some were people I may never see/hear from again. In the old days I never would have seen their coins since they never would have sent me a list or known I existed even if they had what I was seeking. The Internet changed all that. It is like getting a list from every dealer and having the option of not even opening the envelope from the ones I know won't be productive. I used to live for the lists of a few hundred coins that arrived every week; now I ignore a few thousand coins offered every day simply because I can't keep up. These are not the circumstances that make for close relationships with a core of dealers. When I go to a show, there are two or three dealers that I know I will visit and others only if I see something displayed on their table or if I have time to spend (or is it money left???). The shows today are a lot more like the old days than the Internet is to the old paper lists.

 

Hello all I came across this thread on the Internet reading about coin show attendance and felt compelled to register and reply, I myself set up at coin shows about one or two a month. I also have an eBay presence and deal primarily ancient greek and roman coins.
I honestly haven't seen such a lack of attendance in the shows I attend
But I'm in the east (Carolina's) the shows in the rust belt have pretty good attendance too. A lot of business is done dealer to dealer at shows
But it is what it is, as everybody has their customers and knows what they like, Someone mentioned there is no shows in Cincinatti there is Paul padgetts show in early June in Sharonville.
I will be at that show maybe it is worse in the west coast I've never been to any shows out there also Hello Mr.Dorney I believe Ive bought some bulk lots from you in the past.
-Marco