Possible 1909S vdb?

So what do I have here? Thanks looks like something was under the date.

 

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Sorry...Not a chance. Keep looking and Good Luck!

 

I don't see an S.

 

Ahh it's all good still a good $10 cent

 

What happened to this one? Got a bunch in a wheat lot I bought on Craigslist

 

Hope you didn't pay too much!

 

Just a suggestion ...some advice from long ago that was given to me - a very young roll hunter.

Guys, there is no Santa Claus in Numismatics. Searching rolls for rare dates and "micro-errors" is fun and very affordable. Occasionally, very occasionally, something good is found (I'm personally not interested in the thousands of posters who will now reply telling us all what they found and how much they sold it for ...start a new thread for the dreamers.

I don't know your means but you both seem to have developed a "good eye" for detail. In case you have not ... join a coin club if one is available and if you are spending a large amount of money...Stick to slabbed coins for the time being.

I see you have found CT is a way to get info on your finds. Please keep posting and again...Good hunting.

PS Some big dealers sell "unsearched" bags of cents. A majority of them (from my experience making them up for two different dealers) are "salted" with a few "better" (but not worth much to either me or the big dealer) cents. You'll probably have more fun buying one of those for the money rather than Craig's List.

 

PS Forgot to add IMO added "S" alteration.

 

That is counterfeit all the way.

 

Opps...Thanks for pointing out my error! Rim's correct...It is a counterfeit I jumped the gun...look at the coins "rims"

 

The N in cent is a clear give away. It is not a 1909-S VDB.

 

I am really interested in learning about this authentication secret!

 

Definitely a counterfeit.

 

It is not a secret. The N in cent on the 1909-S VDB is a clear give away. Check it out on Google. It is a clear give-away.

 

Here are a couple threads to read;
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/how-to-tell-if-your-1909-s-v-d-b-is-real.78043/
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/the-1909-s-vdb.232533/

 

I appreciate the threads you both have given to me. In all honesty, This is old news. The "S" mintmark positions have been published since the 1980's. In the threads, the people show Chinese "chocolate" junk that any informed YN can tell are fake and compare that crap to a genuine coin (one of which had a slightly deformed "N"). In my experience this is an anomaly.

I am embarrassed to say I jumped the gun on the OP because the "S" was the wrong shape. In my rush, I missed all the clear evidence that the entire coin was a C/F! Thankfully, Rims corrected me quickly so hopefully no one was mislead.

Now, back to my original question. IMO, the shape of the "N" is not any way to determine if a 1909-S VDB cent is genuine. Never heard of that, never was taught that, and have never observed that - ever. I shall dig out a few 1909-S, 1909 VDB, and 1909-S VDB cents and post photos of the "N's" I repeat that I have never seen a difference and don't believe there is a difference as the "N" is part of the hub that made all the dies used at each Mint.

Anyway, I'll let you all decide. If I am wrong about this, I will be the first to point that out.

 

That is because you were looking at the shape. Look closely at the pictures in that first link. It is raised on the crook in the N. Now granted, this is not limited to only the S-VDB, but all have this feature. The same is true for the VDB dot. So if both are present, then you can look at the S position and possibly the die chip.

 

Now granted, this is not limited to only the S-VDB, but all have this feature THANK YOU, Then just as I thought, this is a USLESS diagnostic. You know what? I'm being a fool. I'm making the assumption that the crude struck C/F SVDB coins don't fool any of the collectors here on CT.

Am I also wrong to assume that WE ALL KNOW the dots on VDB coins can show as 1, 2, 3, all missing or in different combos of weakness? That's why the dots are USELESS also.

I was taught to authenticate these coins in the following steps which I rarely follow after all these years ...LOL:

1. Look at entire coin w/eye.
2. Look at shape of "S" w/hand lens.
3. Look at shape of "B" in VDB.
4. Check the position of the "S" relative to the date.
5. Check edge and rim for "cup & saucer" or joined obv/rev alterations.
6. Look for "diagnostic markers and die polish" to confirm opinion and die state/die combo. For example: one obverse die has a tool mark on the rim over the "R" in "trust." Now this is a "real" diagnostic that an authenticator can use (this can also be transferred to a deceptive c/f). There are many more diagnostics that ANYONE can find for themselves if they study enough AU-MS genuine SVDB coins.

PS I use a stereo scope rather than a hand lens so it is easier to see these things. Using a scope I usually just check the "S" , VDB, and edge...short and sweet.

 

Most 09- VDBs do not have either feature. Some do, however. And most fake 09-S VDBs I have seen do not have the dot or N correct. So you may call it useless, but it is a quick and easy method of avoiding a lot of other inspections.