This posting is for stevex6 - I liked the one you posted a while ago. I picked up an interesting overstrike last year - a quadrans over a uncia. The weight is about right for a Cr 38/6 uncia. The two obverses are about 90 degrees off and the under coin is obvious when rotated! I am not certain about the Crawford number of the top coin, but I call it a Cr 56/5 for now. Crawford in RRC lists this type in his table of overstrikes #43 on pg 109. I do not see doubling on the reverse. Cr 38/6 from Gorny & Mosch Cr 56/5 from Spink
That's an awesome find, rrdenarius ... very cool Doug has several sweet examples as well ... => yah, the overstrikes are super interesting (they're like two coins in one!)
Quadrans over Uncia? So, half a denarius over 1/12 of an As? And 4 As make a denarius? Somebody stop me!! This is math! And I'm sure it's all wrong so bring it!
I don't wanna be that guy, but it is wrong. A denarius at this time was 10 asses. A quadrans was a quarter of an as or 3 unciae, so it wasn't half a denarius but 1/40 of a denarius. And an uncia as you said was 1/12 an as. Just a side note: the denarius likely didn't exist when the original uncia that makes the undertype was minted. Crawford 38 series "semilibral" bronzes date to circa 217-215 BC, but most researchers agree the first denarii were minted in 214, 212 or 211 BC. The over type, which is from the slightly later Crawford 56 "sextantal" series dates to circa 211 BC. Edit: for some reason when I originally posted this it uploaded a file. That was actually a mistake so I deleted it. The coin there was a related overstrike and likely from the same time period as this one but I need more time to study it before I share it.
I was looking for the guy that had the scoop.I assumed it was about devaluation and tariffs and such. It's a "start up" phenom.
I have a "quinarius" (actual McCabe coin on his site) that notes say "around 211 BC, =5 As. Whats up with that? Here is that coin...
Your coin is a quinarius as you said, which was worth half a denarius or 5 asses. There was also the sestertius, which was worth one quarter of a denarius or 2.5 asses.
So ......let me get this untangled....at one time the "standard" was the "As" and then the denarius became the reference of monetary value? And we think all this happened between 214BC and 211-ish BC? [all of you who understand this, please feel free to go on to another thread..or wash the car, etc.]
more than you wanted, but my understanding of RR monetary values: 700 BC to 300 BC (not an exact time line) The early Romans were primarily subsistence farmers. They did not have significant wealth in the form of gold or silver and made transactions by barter. Early fines were recorded in cows and sheep. In the fifth century, fines were converted to bronze asses. 1 Cow = 100 Asses 1 Sheep = 10 Asses 1 As = 1 Roman pound of bronze, or 1 As = 330 grams = 11.6 ounces 300 BC to 220 BC, ignoring silver coin issues AES Grave, or cast bronze coins. They were based on an As of one Roman pound of bronze. During this time the weight of the As dropped by a factor of 10. There were multiples and fractions: X = Decussis = 10 Asses V = Quincussis = 5 Asses III = Tressis = 3 Asses II = Dupindius = 2 Asses I = As = 12 unciae = 300 oz. bronze S = Semis = 6 unciae 4 dots = Triens = 4 unciae 3 dots = Quadrans = 3 unciae 2 dots = Sextans = 2 unciae 1 dot = Uncia Sigma = Semiuncia, or less than uncia 211 BC to 140 BC, in about 211 BC Rome introduced a new silver coin the denarius. It had a mark of value of X. There were two fractions of the denarius. They kept the bronze coins from As to Semiuncia. X = Denarius = 10 Asses V = Quinarius = 5 Asses IIS = Sestertius = 2.5 Asses 140 to 30 BC, in 140 BC the denarius was revalued to 16 asses.
RRdenarius is spot on. I will add that, from my understanding, the pre-denarius silver(and gold) issues were largely made to facilitate commerce with the Greek cities. The denarius system was introduced because the Second Punic War put great stress on the Roman monetary system and they realized these two separate systems were untenable so a new integrated bronze, silver and gold system was introduced with values based on the asses of the existing bronze system. On top of that, a new silver coin, the victoriatus, was introduced for commerce with the Greek cities and was not valued in asses nor was it meant to be part of the Roman monetary system and hoard evidence proves that the denarius and the victoriatus did not circulate together.
@rrdenarius and @red_spork : Nice explanations. Exactly how I have the denominations. Additionally from approx 280-211 BCE Republican Rome produced didrachmae, drachmae (241-230 BCE), dilitrae, litrae, and semilitrae, as well as a possible AE Tet (28mm, 15-19g) mainly to trade with Magna Graecia and Sicily. I have a good chunk of those issue varieties also.
