Seeking consultation regarding large copper cent

I've been collecting mid-19th century US coins for a while now, but I only recently decided to find a large cent - I need it to be an 1840 because that's a date I've been collecting. I'm not concerned about getting a high grade coin, but I wanted one with good details and an interesting look to it. I bought this recently from a well known dealer - didn't spend a lot of money on it - to me, judging by the pictures it has really nice details for the grade (PCGS XF40). In my comparative research, it seems to be a pretty good representation of what the coin should look like. That said, I see that it has a considerable amount of green oxidation around the devices - could that be why it's an xf40 rather than a 45 or 50 given the nice level of detail remaining?

This is fine with me if the coin is likely to be stable - as old as it is, I would tend to think it should be ok, but I know next to nothing about copper coins. So, what do you think? Is it likely to remain as it is in the holder - or could it deteriorate quickly? No guarantees expected (and the investment isn't huge) but what should/could I expect. I am not committed to keeping it yet.

Thanks in advance for any enlightenment offered.

 

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Beauty...Needs conservation. ALL of this will come off with proper conservation.

 

hmm - thanks for taking the time to respond. Wouldn't conservation automatically make it "details"? And wouldn't there be pitting underneath it? Not that at the grade and price that's a deal breaker, but, really - as is it appears to be original - isn't that a good thing?

 

You are correct about the grade. After conservation 45 - 53. Look at how little actual rub is on the high points of the leaves.

If this were mine, I would send to ICG (free conservation) + low cost, high speed. Second choice NCS. Much higher cost.

Note: Two weeks ago I saw four NGC Large cents that had gone through NCS. All four were too "stripped" and way below par for that company's usual work. The dealer was furious and we both considered each coin's value and eye appeal lowered. I think this was a case of inattention by NCS and still (SO FAR) would recommend them.

 

I have experience with coins such as this. IMO, this type of green scum comes right off with the proper methods and does not leave any trace. 90% of the time, not enough time has passed for actual corrosion to occur under the green color.

Now, of course they are going to "clean" your coin; however, if done properly, the coin will blast and no one will find any evidence of treatment (Proper conservation). Trust me, this is a three step, two minute job by a professional.

Coins are given "details" grades when they are not market acceptable. Large cent dealers would be chasing you all over the show to get this coin so they can "fix" it.

I'm sure the large cent collectors will confirm my posts.

 

Wow! Last thing I expected was proposing it be cleaned. But I don't know jack about copper coins. Very interested to hear other views. Thanks.

 

"Conservation" is different than "cleaning" it removes the crud w/out turning your piece into a pink token-supposedly.

 

Nice coin and I agree with the grade. It will be relatively stable the way it is if it is stored properly. It could use a little Verdi-care help. The free is verdigris which is an organic substance. Verdi-care will halt its growth and protect it from further damage. It will get worse over time, but maybe not in your lifetime in the holder. The green will be gone, but a slightly darker surface would remain. Where it is located, I would think that the darker surface would appear completely natural. This would be my approach before sending it out for conservation; just too many bad experiences and too costly for me to go back. And conservation does not automatically get a net grade. As lone as the coin isn't improperly cleaned, it will get a numerical grade.

 

That kind of green around the devices doesn't bother me at all. Progression will be slow, if any. Verdicare seems reasonable since it is fairly benign.

 

I also vote for Verdi-Care!

 

Thanks. What is verdi-care? Does it mean you crack it and treat it and re-submit it? Or do you mean just leave it alone?

 

Well that's completely up to you. I would probably crack it, treat it and leave it raw. If the green bugs you and you want it in a slab, crack it, treat then resubmit it.

 

Got it! thanks!

 

Here is my 1840 which looks strangely red in this image. I really need better lighting.

 

Yeah, I think you need to reimage that with different lighting. With the current lighting, the surface color doesn't look natural.

 

Sweet picture of a nice coin, Kirkuleez! Thanks for posting that.

 

I just realized your name. I used to play in a band called fiddlehead.

 

Verdigris will eventually eat the coin away. There is no way it wasn't there when PCGS slabbed it, and that doesn't look good for them that they'd encapsulate a coin with corrosion actively damaging it.

Verdi-Care is a verdigris conservation compound developed by BadThad, a working chemist who's also a Lincoln Cent nut. It_works.

 

If you don't get the green off; it will turn into a POS no matter how you store it!

Yes, the surface will be damaged under the green eventually and NOTHING will fix it. It is possible that may have happened already BUT IMO probably not.

SuperDave is correct...I too cannot believe PCGS slabbed this coin w/o calling and offering to conserve it! IMO, this was 100% on the coin when it was slabbed. This does not EVER happen in a slab no matter what you do to it. It is the typical corrosion product that builds up around a brass snap on a leather object. The THICKNESS is the clue that this is old!

Now, I apologize for being in such a rush to help in my first post that I MISSED THE FACT it was in a PCGS slab. That changes things. If my coin either:

1. Sell/trade for "clean" coin
2. Crack out and remove residue (First choice cause I like to clean things Grade will not change, eye appeal will soar.

Color looks totally artificial. Also, not that the "green" color is IN the surface rather than ON the surface of the OP. IMO, this green is harder to remove w/o looking funky. Furthermore, large cent and ancient collectors don't mind this color on their copper...it's called "patina."

Note: I no nothing about ANACS conservation services. I do know that PCGS should have called you or left a sticker on your coin recommending it be conserved as NGC does (Saw one of these at the FUN show when a collector submitted it to Randy Campbell to be crossed and conservation at ICG for $10).

 

Thanks folks - I didn't submit the coin - I basically have it on approval. I have no idea how long ago it was graded. As to the color - it looks pretty close to the color of a raw large cent I have that's probably fine or good but not worth sending for certification. I find it more appealing than than the really dark ones I see a lot of. What is considered the best sort of color in this vintage large cent (assuming a brown variety of course). Does anyone have an example (besides the lovely one that Kurkuleez posted but says the color isn't true to the picture)?