Hello, While going through all my pounds of extras I came across several that I think might qualify as proofs. Now in some countries (British) proofs are mirrored background and frosted design. However, I don't find that distinction in other countries like the Netherlands. Is there more to it then just a mirrored surface? And just how mirrored? Some of the Nickel coins get pretty glossy. Thanks for any and all input.
I'm not familiar with European issues, but here in the States, proofs can be distinguished by their mirrored fields and frosty devices. Rims are squared, sometimes wire rimmed, and not rounded like on a business strike. Proofs here in the states are struck at least twice which really brings out the detail in the image. I'm calling in @SuperDave to lend a hand.........
What green18 describes is true of modern proofs. Its called a frosted cameo. But for many years, only the first coins struck off a new die had the frosted effect with the mirrored fields. That's why old proofs are much more valuable in that state. It is common now, but most old proofs are known from being very well struck, with exceptional polish. Unknown to me how you could tell for sure if the coin is out of the package. I have found a couple of proofs in bank rolls. A Kennedy was known primarily by the fact it was a non-circulating date/mint, but still had some bit of proof gloss. Another just looked remarkably smooth and clear in the fields, under magnification, although it looked pretty nice to the naked eye too. There are methods by identifying specific factors of die types, but isn't that for rare, high price coins such 1909-SVDB?
Not from what I have seen people post here. High price coins do have identifying characteristics of the strike, but I assume proofs do also.
This is how I'd go about it if I were unsure of the issue: First, of course, confirm that each "candidate" is of a year and mint mark known to have been produced in Proof. Then it's time to learn enough about the issue to be competent noting an extraordinary strike, because even a poor Proof should be that much by comparison to the average Business Strike. The rim is normally a good marker for the reasons noted, but outside corners only. Inside corners are treated differently between issues and the Proof might have a greater or lesser radius. Chances are if a Proof of the issue has been struck, Heritage Auctions or someone else has sold one and high-resolution images exist. These will help with noting the differences between Proof and Business Strikes for the issue, and check the auction copy carefully for Proof die pickups being mentioned. You can do the same for higher-grade Business Strikes; occasionally the features which differentiate that coin from a Proof are mentioned in the writeup. It's just about due diligence - learn what you can about that particular Proof, narrow down all the possibilities and become as certain as possible. Then take pics and post the evidence in front of folks who know more than you or I about it.
One of the reasons I asked is because I was going through my Netherlands extras. Every year up until 1970 or so in some of the denominations has a proof. I can see the luster grain on most of them but others don't have a luster grain though they are smooth and glossy. I can see the christmas lights reflected on them though it's a fuzzy reflection with color and definition but not as clear as a mirror.
Yeah, I can see your situation. It would probably be a safe assumption that in most years Proofs will outnumber Business Strikes with Prooflike qualities - an individual die couldn't strike as many as hundreds of those, perhaps barely dozens or less. Your best bet are issue-specific folks in the World forum, I think. Chances are somebody will have the knowledge.
Netherlands nickel coins starting from the late 1960's are often found with a proof-like appearance - reflective fields and frost looking devices. These are business strikes though. The proofs would have a sharp cameo effect similar to that of British, US and nearly all other modern world proofs (aside from matte proofs).
This is what I go by (in rough order): Square rims.. Strong strike (I've never seen a proof that's what I would call weakly struck.) Die characteristics. Possibly, for ultra-modern coins, cameo frost. Die characteristics might not be available for all proofs, but, at least for US coins, a lot are. This is how you identify a coin with a so-called "Type B" reverse. You can also put it under a stereoscope and see if you see any evidence of multiple strikes. This might be hard to impossible to determine if the coin is at all circulated, because the multiple strikes will generally not be visible even under low magnification.
Circulated proofs may have impaired fields, so it is imperative to look at the other characteristics given by the knowledgable folks here. In my case, I have found proof nickels, dimes, and even a presidential dollar in circulation.
That's a case where sometimes you're stuck with needing known die pair pickups that can conclusively identify it as a Proof rather than a Business Strike.
I have an old year set that is rarely found in its mint packaging anymore. It meets the requirements to be a proof set. I took it to a coin show to ask, and all the dealers I asked barely glanced at it before declaring it non proof. One even offered me all of $75 for it. Not many dealers near me, but my experience with the ones that exist have been the same. They apparently live (very well) off the ignorance of sellers. Something I noticed, is that even modestly circulated proofs show a level of clean, clear details and fields, even under magnification, over business strikes.
