How do you tell if a coin is an "older" matte proof coin as opposed to an uncirculated business, proof-like, or one of the first business strikes using fresh dyes, all of which may have decently or similarly high reliefs and have simply tarnished to give a tarnished appearance? I know that common examples are the 1922 Peace Dollar matte proof high and low relief coins, but besides that coin which has a lot of research and info on it already, and including older (early 20th century) world coins, how does one go about identifying older matte proof coins? Would a surefire way to test this is to see if the coin gets "shiny" when the tarnish gets removed? If it's not "shiny" underneath the tarnish and the relief is "moderate" or the same as a business strike, could it simply be a worn out proof variety that may have ended up in circulation? Then wouldn't measuring the relief heights and comparing them to known examples of both strikes prove inconclusive? Can you polish a matte proof minted coin? I ask these questions so that I may be better informed of raw coin purchases, which may have a variety of different characteristics that may or may not indicate a rarer matte proof variety of the coin. I don't intend to ever polish or clean my coins - in contrast, previous owners may have done who knows what to the coins that may actually help to better ID a possible matte proof variety of a given coin. Thanks in advance.
Each variety of matte proof has specific die markers. Unless you are an expert and have the coin in hand, I would never buy a raw matte proof. My matte proof cent was NGC that I crossed to PCGS.
But what if you're purchasing a business strike coin anyway, and wondering if the example may be a rare proof variety (that may cost a little more and with the same condition)?
In that case, pay no more than you would for a business strike. Research the die markers for the specific date and mint you are considering, there is plenty of information about identification.
Business strike coins have a chamfer ( slight bevel) on the angle of the rim and the edge of the coin. Proofs, mat or otherwise, are not expected to circulate and have no bevel, but a 90 degree ( right angle) edge. Sometimes used proof dies were said to be used for business strikes on business planchets, so details could be extremely sharp, but the planchet would not have prooflike edges. Here is an 09 matte proof edge.
I have seen that said many times, but this is the first time I have actually seen it. Is this true for proofs from other countries?
I am not sure. My son collects many foreign proofs, and all of his collection shows the same, but they are late 1800s to date. Breen says in his book on US proofs, that it started when the mint began using close collars in 1828 as I remember, which makes sense.
Reason I asked is that I have an India 50 rupee coin that has a mirror finish, but I have no idea if it is proof or proof-like.
What causes business strike planchets to get chamfered along the edge in the first place? Are the chamfers created when the planchets are punched out of the sheets as blanks? And, are proof strikes "de-chamfered" as a result of getting pressed multiple times, which consequently flattens the chamfered collar / edge area? I tried looking for the beveled edges but all of my proof examples are in capsules... while the business strike examples may show a bit of "rounding" on the edge. It must be a very small bevel.
Depending on country, you would usually see either this same type of "squared" edge, or you would see a high, thin wire edge on most older foreign proofs
Matte proofs are never "shiny" Yes, but why would you? You can also drive a nail through them, bend them in half in a vise, hit them with a grinding wheel or any number of other methods of doing damage to them. Yes, the multiple strikes and higher pressure allows the edge to complete fill in the sharp square junction of the rim and the edge all the way around the coin. This doesn't normally happen on business strikes struck once and at lower pressures..
Yes I know... The point is not that I would, but that polished coins may still be identified as raw matte proof coins that had been polished, because the previous owners thought it would be better for them (over the course of 100 years, I'm sure many non-collectors had this come across their minds). That's what I figured, thanks, that's good to know.
