Hmmm…what’s going on w. this PL/DMPL Morgan?

I recently picked up this raw 1884 CC Morgan. Under a loupe, I don’t see any signs of altered surfaces/whizzing/cleaning/etc.




What’s up with the burnt tone that outlines the devices on the obverse? A couple specks of the same burnt patina on the reverse are noted. Was the obverse possibly double struck?

As an amateur collector, I’ve never seen a Morgan with these features. I am at a loss! Any help would be appreciated. Hoping someone can shed some light (pathetic pun totally intended )

Many thanks.

PS: That nice cobalt blue hue in the fields isn’t the result of any light diffusion or tricks - looks that way in person! I’ve done my best to capture it accurately.

 

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I'm far from an expert here, but almost every time you see weirdness like this it comes from cleaning or dipping. But I suppose this could have been in an album and just toned like this...not sure, I noticed it before I read your bottom paragraphs tho.

 

I appreciate the reply. I can say with fair amount of confidence that the coin’s not dipped…there’s a cameo between the devices and fields that, in my experience, dipped coins neither preserve nor produce. The fields exhibit deep mirrors uniformly and precisely (between denticles, inside lettering, etc)…the burnt toning appears to lie on top of the surfaces. That said, could be some sort of AT…also partly feel like my pictures aren’t doing it full justice. Thanks again for your input! Cheers.

 

The coin (especially the obverse) looks to have toned then cleaned. Look at the fields on the right side. Parallel lines and darkness around all of the devices are pretty clear indicators of cleaning.

BTW, a dip done properly will not effect a cameo contrast.

 

Yeah I agree with that. It does look cleaned but it is interesting on how it does have PL fields.... perhaps it's an original PL Morgan that has been severely altered.

 

Color and surfaces look off. Like a dip that wasn't properly rinsed

 

still, a nice piece

 

Could this be a "California" dmpl from the 70s?

 

Looks like a dip that went bad.

 

I draw your attention to the areas in the field at the top and behind the head on the obverse.
I see a LOT of lines oriented 1-7.
Notice they do NOT reach the head.
If they were from die polishing they would go right up to the head.
But since there's an untouched "halo" around the head I attribute those lines to abrasive cleaning.

 

After coffee and a taking a close look, I agree. Someone freakin dipped a dmpl cc! Who would do that. Maybe it was a toner and done back in the day to remove the color. That dark line flowing around the contours of the cap back as well as the field hairlines tell me dip and wipe. The dark spots look like carbon spots

 

Looks like we had the same Idea at the same time @kanga

 

It's a PL surface and those are very delicate surfaces. It still has its luster grazes on the reverse so it wasn't dipped in any coin dip. The obverse is a little funky and looks touched up but that might just be due to the different lighting. The lines don't look very different than are seen on a lot of these PLs.

 

I agree with Kanga and cascade. I know there was someone that was selling a lot of dmpl and pl raw coins on ebay. Once you had one in hand the cleaning was obvious - just glad my father could return the one he bought.

 

I think it has been cleaned, too! I don't think it ever was a DMPL.

Chris

 

Looks cleaned to me, either way, I don't think it would grade.

 

Thats is not true. PL surfaces are less delicate that surfaces sporting full luster. It is the luster "lines" that can take a beating from dipping and PL coins have less luster. True proof coins can take much more of a dip than full cartwheel coins, since there is little luster to destroy. In addition, a light dip can remove the tarnish and leave the luster lines relatively in tact so you cannot determine that he coin was not dipped becasue you can see some luster.

 

My guess would be a dip that wasn't rinsed properly as well. The dots on the reverse remind me of the result of a coin stored in cardboard 2x2 with pin holes in the mylar window. If it was an ebay purchase I would like to see the seller's images.

 

Mostly total agreement. Not really severe but naked eye cleaned. It takes lots of cleaning or wear to eliminate a PL surface; however some original PL may remain inside the letters of close to the relief.

The brown stains indicate two things. Coins stored in 2x2's often town with spots (see reverse especially) when the clear Mylar (?) gets holes. the atmosphere affects the surface directly under the holes.

The brown stain that runs along the bas of the chin is direct evidence of a previously dipped coin that was not neutralized.

 

Yikes...I have some nice coins to sell. This puppy is ugly. With proper conservation it might be a 62. HOWEVER: I'll bet if this were professionally graded it would come back as chem. altered surface! That patch of "white" in the field next to the neck does not look natural - probably over flow. Also, many of the marks on the relief of this coin are the same color (dulled down) as the surrounding area. What do others think