Hard question relate to detect cleaned coins...

It might, or it might not. But let me mention a couple of things here. There are questions & comments similar to yours posted all the time. And most of them have a few things in common. For example, you say the luster is present and it's shiny.

Now you may know the difference, or you may not, I don't know. But I do know that there are others out there who do not, so it is important for them to understand that just because a coin is shiny or white in color that does not mean that the coin has any luster present.

Luster is produced on all coins that are struck, all of them. But luster is a very fragile thing. It is so fragile that if you were to put a piece of cloth over the end of your finger and then wipe the end of your finger across a portion of the coin, just a single pass, then much and possibly all of the luster in that area touched by the cloth would be destroyed - depending on the amount of pressure you used. Rub the entire coin with a cloth and it will look bright and shiny alright, but it will not have any luster left. And the cloth will also leave behind tell tale light scratches also known as hairlines.

But here's the thing about hairlines, coins can also get hairlines just in the course of them being handled. So hairlines can be present even though the coin was not harshly cleaned. For example, put an Unc coin down on a towel or a piece of felt, slide the coin across it even a short distance and the coin will have hairlines. Put an Unc coin down on a table, a counter top, a desk top, slide the coin across it even a short distance and the coin will have hairlines. You can even put hairlines on a coin with the end of your bare finger. This is because luster is very fragile.

People think that just because a coin is made of metal and that metal is hard that it takes something harder than the metal to scratch or hairline the coin. But this is not true at all. It has nothing to do with the hardness, it has to do with how fragile luster is. What you have to do is think of it like this. Most of you have seen this illustration that I use to explain luster - /\/\//\/\/. If luster were magnified big enough that's kind of what it would look like. It is caused by the metal flowing when the coin is struck. But at the top of those /\ 's (peaks) that you see the metal is very, very, thin. It's kind of like a line of single atoms of metal all stretched out in a line. And virtually anything that touches that line will push or scratch some of those atoms away, leaving behind traces that it was done. That's how hairlines get on coins.

Now this is the part that addresses your question Aslpride - when it comes to grading hairlines have a detrimental impact on the grade. That doesn't mean that just because a coin has some hairlines that the coin is not gradeable. Lots and lots of coins that have hairlines have been graded and slabbed. It's how many hairlines there are, how much of the coin is covered with hairlines, where the hairlines are on the coin meaning are they in primary focal points or someplace else, is there just a hairline or two here and there or are there patches of them here and there, these are the things that determine how badly the hairlines will impact the grade, or keep the coin from being graded at all. It's a subjective thing, a judgement call.

With experience collectors, graders, dealers, they all learn how to make that judgement. The know when it is too much and when it is not, or how much to discount the grade. And of course some will be more strict or more lenient than others.

If there are enough hairlines on the coin then the coin will be judged to have been harshly cleaned and thus ungradeable. But it is important to understand that the coin may not necessarily have been harshly cleaned for it to be labeled as such. That is because a coin can also acquire that many hairlines from rough handling. But there is no way to know if it was rough handling or harsh cleaning that did it. And it really doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is that there are enough of them there, regardless of what caused them.

It is also important to understand that the TPGs do not treat all coins equally when it comes to hairlines. There is no written rule anywhere that determines this, but it is a fact that it happens. The evidence of this is the coins themselves and the fact that they are graded or not graded even though each coin may have an equal number of hairlines in the same places. But as a general rule the older the coin the more lenient they are and the more modern the coin the more strict they are. No, there are no dates for this, no cut off points, but it is safe to say that with early US coinage they are far more lenient. Again, it's an experience thing. Once you have seen enough graded coins you get a feel for how the TPGs treat that type of coin. Is this right or wrong ? Well, that's up to you to decide. But it is how it is, that much is fact.

So, your coin Aslpride, would it be automatically labeled as having been harshly cleaned ? As I said in the beginning, maybe, maybe not - it's a judgement call. And without seeing the coin to make that judgement no judgement can be made.

The point of me writing all of this is to try and help all of those who have or will ask the question how do I tell if my coin has been harshly cleaned or not ? It is not a simple question, it is a very complicated question with many factors and variables. But to understand how to answer that question you first have to also fully understand everything I have explained above. And there is a lot to understand. Hopefully this will help a bit.

 

Sorry but that just isn't true. If someone takes a cloth or rag, or anything else, and rubs a coin then the hairlines produced will be criss-crossing and running in every direction. Now is it possible for them to all run the same direction ? Yeah sure, it's possible, but it is very unlikely.

Now when a coin is whizzed yes it is fairly common for the lines to run the same direction. But whizzing is an entirely different thing than harsh cleaning and whizzing is almost always done with mechanical means whereas harsh cleaning is not. It is almost always done by hand.

 

Yes I do believe the 2nd coin would be designated as having been harshly cleaned. The hairlines are particularly obvious in the fields in front of the face. The coin still has some luster, but in that area it is mostly gone.

The first coin is kind of iffy but I suspect the result would be the same. Yes it obviously has luster, but I can plainly see a patch of hairlines across the face & hair, some up by the TY, some in the fields behind the head, and a few in the fields in front of the face. Those on the face and hair seem to be the worst.

I also agree that if you shot the videos with the coins out of the holders the hairlines would be much easier to see on both coins.

 

And you haven't even scratched the surface, and yes pun intended. What you just discovered though, well that is something that even some of those who have been involved with coins for many years haven't yet figured out. That being that when it comes to the TPGs, there is no rhyme or reason. Of course the reason they haven't been able to figure it out is simply because they just don't want to believe it.

It is said that you can't see when your eyes are closed. Well, you can't see when your mind is closed either