Anyone else having trouble getting NGC to designate world coins as PL or PR? I've sent in 4 over the last year. Three were PL and one was a proof for a year with known proofs and all came back with MS grades. I even sent them in with regular strike examples of the same year in the submission and it had no effect.
Yes, I have also found that all (almost) of my submissions of PL coins have come out as MS. The only one that got PL was a recent submitted coins where I paid extra for them to put in the catalogue reference in the label. When I get an MS label from a PL submission...I allways tell myself (What matters is the coin, not the slab!... and I repeat it three times) This was the coin: http://www.ngccoin.com/coin-census/...te-scid-256/200r/200r-18754-por-coinid-346842
Interesting outcome. I should hope I wouldn't need to pay for attribution to have it identified as a proof though. Here are the business strike and proof Hungarian 1915KB koronas I just sent in together recently. The business strikes have creamy matte surfaces, and the proof has full watery mirrored surfaces and contrasted devices. I've had no luck getting PL designations previously, so I figured I'll send them literally next to each other on the submission so they can't miss it. I even wrote PR and circled it on the submission. 1915 is a year they actually have a proof listed in the census, so I figured this was a sure thing. Here are the results:
I see your point! And even if the picture of the Proof-Like is not the best and by itself could be seen as being MS...when we have the common one on the side its clear its two different finishes. Now that being said...you cannot guarantee that it was the same grader(s) that got both coins and therefore should have picked the difference from each one. They shouldn't even need to have a comparative version of each to determine if it was PL/PR or not...that is also why we pay. Its for the "slabbing" service but mostly should be for their knowledge. This was the picture I took of the one that got PL this time.
Yea harder to see in those slab shots, but here's a better picture of the proof. I've seen what I would call semi PL business strikes for 1912 and 1915 in this series and have a few examples of each, but this is the only one I've come across with full mirrors like this. I would have expected a PL designation at the very least.
Well, maybe not PL, but I often see these results for Komsco-made products: Perhaps "PL" only applies to the grading of U.S. coins?
PL stands for "Proof Like" and it should be used in situations where there is no registered versions in Proof of a certain coin. PF stands for Proof. PL coins exist for US and World Coins and applies mostly to coins that were minted mainly with the dies while they were new or re-polished. This is when "normal" coins tend to take on Proof Like appearance (with mirror fields and matte reliefs).
Indeed. They do it for world coins. As much as their customer service is the most helpful of any TPG, and I prefer their grading to PCGS' for the series I collect, I wish they were more communicative about designations and attributions. I've had them mis-attribute tokens I sent in where I had written in the correct attribution and ID number on the submission form. I send them back in later and they fix them for free, but it would be better to just send them out right in the first place. I've got a restrike coin I need to send in for correction now that's attributed as a klippe...
Update - NGC decided to photograph the PL coin and post it as reference in the Portugal 200 Reis D. Luis I series of the NGC Census. That made me... happy!
Update: I showed the above 1915KB Korona and also a 1912 Corona that had come back in MS slabs to several world dealers and all of them unanimously agreed that they were PL. My primary LCS suggested I resubmit them, and so on my next submission I sent them both back to NGC in the slabs specifically marked for PL designation review. Here are the coins. Tough to capture the surfaces faithfully, but they are full watery mirrors with frosty devices. Austria 1912 Corona NGC MS64 Hungary 1915KB Korona NGC MS63 Here are the coins after PL designation review: So both got the PL upon designation review, but it's puzzling that I had to resubmit to get it. While these are common dates, PL examples are scarce and command a premium, so it's surprising that the designation would be overlooked. If these were US coins of the same dates, they would have 100% gotten the designation on the first submission. Still, it's nice to see that NGC corrects their mistakes like this. The customer service was great, and the designation review is a relatively inexpensive service. I've got a couple more PL world coins without designations that I will likely send in with my next submission as well.
I am glad they put it on the slab for you. Those are gorgeous! I haven't sent in many foreign coins, but I have the exact same problem with US coins. It seems that the designation is unusual enough that they need some prompting to actually put it on the slab. I have a few US coins that I'll be sending in for review in the near future, hopefully with similar results. Compounding the problem is the fact that NGC only recently started designating PL on all world coins (within the last couple/few years). Similarly, they only started applying the Star to all world coins (and how many of those do you see?). I have a few PL world coins:
