Second thoughts and return

Pishpash posted the tale of her Reunion with a coin lost and then found. Below is my shameful saga of a coin sent away and later restored to my family group.

You all know our John Anthony has been selling coins. I sent him a parcel of unwanted duplicates and outgrown things for him to include in his sales. Some sold; some were rejected; some have yet to be presented. A couple months after he started on the group we still had not seen this denarius of Septimius Severus which JA had reported to me as one I had paid too much for. The failure of better coins to sell made me look again at this one to see why I had paid too much and rethink what we might ask, fairly, for it. I decided to ask JA for its return because none of you would want it but I had overlooked the feature that had made me want it in the first place. I know few here are into Septimius to the degree I am and few here are interested in barbarous coins. I also know that few people including myself would consider paying what I had 25 years ago for this scrap of ugliness as shown below so the proper place for it was right where it had spent the last 25 years --- with me. Today the postman delivered my not new coin. I've posted my favorites of 2015 and my best bargains in various price brackets. Here is the coin that left and returned in 2015.



It appears to be a legionary denarius of the most common LEG XIIII. The part of the reverse legend that remains is normal for the type but the style of the eagle is unusual with curving wings even a bit more artistic than usually seen on these. The portrait isnot right for 193 AD but almost resembles the Rome mint style of a few years later. What remains of the obverse legend appears to be LIRELI SEPTIMI. The first makes no sense to me but the last takes the expected SEP and continues the correct spelling of Septimius. The barbarous(?) die cutter did not just copy but knew the name and expanded it. I very much wish I knew what was on the right side of the obverse.

Chances are poor that I will find another coin of this unofficial die set but I will continue hoping to learn what it has to teach me. I hope it will forgive me for sending it off as unwanted. When I find a match, I promise it that I will list the pair in my favorites for that year, whatever year that is.

For comparison, below is a normal Rome mint 193 AD LEG XIIII legionary coin.

IMP CAE L SEP SEV PERT AVG / LEG XIIII GEMMV TRP COS

 

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Interesting write-up about the barbarous nature of the piece. Is the weight correct for the time period? If not an official issue, would this be considered a 'limes' denarius?

 

it's like deja vu all over again!

 

You have me searching every online Latin dictionary to make some sense of LIRELI. So far it's a wild goose chase.

 

Glad you have found a new admiration for that piece Doug! That design sure beats the normal one.

 

Looking at the returned coin, I am scratching my head as to why I wouldn't have bought the coin when it was offered. Glad it's back where it will get the love it deserves.

 

Possibly a form of the name Liris, which is a river around Campania. That might fit in with his early reign.

 

Shoot. I thought the bird was a 'gull'.


I'll go stand in the corner...........

 

It never ceases to amaze me how various 'modest' coins can increase in interest once its story is told, however fragmentary, and how much more we then learn to appreciate it for what it is.

Like Bing, I'm surprised I passed on it. I probably exceeded my budget at the time it was offered----something which is becoming easier and easier to do.

 

Where and when was this offered?

 

JA needs to answer this one, or Doug, but JA has had weekly sales for a number of months now and contacts us beforehand by message here on CT.

 

Here is an Eastern mint LEG XIIII which "Eastern-mint-Doug" might like:



Septimius Severus
LEG XIII GEMM V TRP COS

19-18 mm. 3.10 grams.
Struck 194 (Doug's favorite year!) at Emesa (according to RIC). XIIII was the only legion honored at that mint.
RIC 397. BMC 371. RSC 274.

 

Nice write up and I really like the reverse eagle .

 

I'm sure he will....and so do I!!!

 

It was never offered for sale. Doug told me to hold off on it - it would seem he had a premonition about ultimately not wanting to part with it.

 

XIIII was the only legion honored at that mint.
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I've never understood that part. While the COSII only has LEG XIIII, the first legend coins of that mint as defined by RIC only have LEG VIII which come in regular and with the rare reverse including IICOS at right and COS below. How many coins can you name that have two dates on the same side and they are not the same? Someone with the resources to do a proper job needs to study these. Had Roger Bickford-Smith not died nearly 20 years ago, I am sure many of these questions would have been answered by now.

 

Fascinating subject matter---and WONDERFUL coins!!!

 

No premonition. It was a mistake where I forgot what it was when I sent it. I really need to write up a page about every coin I have that has a footnote. I have, in the past, even given away a die variety I forgot was on that coin. That's what happens when you get forgetful.

The first (ordinary) legionary offered went unsold and the other Severans I did poorly also. I started collecting Severans because they were not as popular and expensive. They still are Rome's red haired step children. That barbarous one is worth more but would have sold for less than the others. Condition is not everything. It is just the only thing that drives the current market.

Have you ever heard the tale where the beautiful girl can't be married until mates have been found for her ugly stepsisters?

 

I believe I used the wrong term here ... 'limes' denarii are normally made of bronze, this coin is obviously silver and does not appear to be a fourree.

 

Correct. Limes (lee-mace) or coins of the borderstend to be less silver. There are quite a few unofficial Septimius coins in relatively good silver, billon, fourree and full bronze. I have no idea how someone will ever figure out a pattern to the mess that is unofficial Roman coinage.