Finding a focus

Indeed the Vindex I was looking at has Augustus on the obverse. As for Nerva he interests me as well. I would particularly like to have one of the clasped hands denarii. I am also interested on the period that follows Nerva. I have a Marcus Aurelius denarius and a nice sestertius of Trajan. I do not have a Hadrian or Antoninus Pius...yet.

 

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Looking forward to seeing this coin. That entire year (68 AD) is rife with plots, subplots, and a lot of inaccurate history that even to this day remains unresolved.

Will you be looking for a Clodius Macer as well? If so, good luck! The denarius below sold for over $200K (including buyer's fee) at the Goldberg auction last June, but when it was resold in January 2015 at the New York Sale, it fetched only $120K! A bargain?



Clodius Macer, Silver Denarius, 3.62g, Governor of Africa, AD 68.
Mint of Carthage
L CLODI-VS MACER, S C below bust, bare head of Clodius Macer facing right. Rev. PRO/PRAE in two lines above, AFRICAE below, war galley with aplustre and five oarsmen sailing right (RIC 37; BMC 1; RSC 13).

Did Macer have designs on being emperor himself, or did he include S C on the obverse to show he supported the Republic (and possibly Nero, who was still in power) and wasn't covetous of the title Imperator? Will we ever know the answer to this and related questions?

 

Was the first sale paid so someone actually lost $80+k including fees or was it unpaid and relisted? The amazing thing to me is how many of the many Macer types there are that sell regularly in the five digit range. Perhaps more interesting is someone paying $2k for this one sided fourree:
http://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=328046
What do you get for a 12 Caesars guy who has them all? Macer!

 

Yep, good point. You never know which coins end up not being paid for and then are consigned to an immediately future auction. This particular coin could be one of those.

 

The fourree Clodius Macer is a known fake. Some clever forger figured out that you can make decent money by making plated fakes, yet fly under the radar for the most part. NAC 54, lot 1051 is another fourree from the same obverse die. I tried very hard to get that one pulled from the sale, but without success.

Phil Davis

 

Conventional wisdom says fourrees must be ancient because they are more trouble to make than solid coins and make much less profit. Fake dies struck on metal reclaimed from old silver coins would be scrutinized closely but struck on a worthless Republican fourree would get a pass from way too many people. We see the same thing with MS Slavei copies completely brutalized so a Caligula can sell in VG for only a few hundred (all profit). Conventional wisdom can be a bit short on the wise part.

 

As a new to ancients collector, not too sure what my focus will be yet but pretty excited to find out. If my box of 6d coins are reading this, they are still my real favourites though.

 

There have been several recent auctions with "re-runs" of coins that had "sold" in the recent past. From what I've heard, most of the resold coins in this particular sale were due to a single non-paying bidder (who has been since banned, and who was even chastised out loud during the auction by Ira Goldberg). I was an underbidder on a few coins in the original sale but ultimately gave up.

 

He is on my wantlist but most of his denarii leave a lot to be desired aesthetically. I'm on the lookout for a non-portrait denarius, either the lion, Libertas, or Victory obverse with the legionary reverse. Heritage, of all places, sold a beautiful example in September 2013 which I should have bid on but I expected my Colosseum sestertius to cost far more so I largely sat out the early part of the sale. The curse of lot sequencing!

 

I had a similar experience in the NAC auction where I set an artificially low bid on an Augustus / Agrippa denarius in order to use more of my budget for the two later coins that I ended up winning. But my accepted winning bids were lower than my maximums by enough that I could have possibly won the Agrippa.

Especially in high-value auctions, this is especially outrageous since if you ended up outbidding the non-payer, you would have overpaid by a serious amount. That's why it's so important to set a budget for an auction!

 

Also, to the point raised originally in this thread, I don't think there's anything wrong with collecting the Twelve Caesars or any of the other "sets" of ancient coins (like Hadrian's Travel Series, the Musa denarii, denomination sets, gods/goddesses, etc). Collectors tend to like finite, well defined sets (case in point: I have a friend who just completed his "collectors set of hyper-cars").

Ancients offer a tremendous level of flexibility, not just the hole-filling of US coinage. Perhaps some of the negative comments here are due to more experienced collectors being worried that incoming collectors will pigeonhole themselves into thinking the Twelve Caesars are the only collectible coins, when there are a myriad of others from which to choose.

That doesn't make The Twelve any less relevant or interesting. Depending on how you collect them, it can be an extremely challenging and impressive set to put together. Take a look at the first part of the Gasvoda collection (NAC 86) or IOM's sets in each metal to get a feel for just how much depth can come to a collection built from a relatively short but very important period of history.

 

100% => and as you just stated, there are so many other areas that a new collector can attack and make their own "individual" target-collection (otherwise, it seems so very easy for the majority of newcomers to immediately flock towards the twelve and/or towards the one-of-each strategy) ...

Sorry, if I get fired-up at times

.... I merely like coins (there is no bad choice) ...

Well, except ... just jokes

 

I'm going to specialise exclusively in Eid Mar denarii. I want to collect the entire set of 100

 

Are you a Highlander?

 

This is exactly the situation. New collectors so often quickly become aware of the 12, owls and a few Bible coins and act like they are driven to finishing their set of ancients like there was a Whitmann folder to fit. I have to wonder how many have read Suetonius. I'm still reading the Matthew Dennison book discussed here a few weeks ago. I keep getting sidetracked but these guys were an interesting bunch.

You joke but I recall Bruce McNall's autobiography recounting a Hunt Brother asking how much it would cost him to buy the Byzantine gold (all of it, not a set). He was dead serious.

 

As opposed to the "more experienced" collectors on this site, I do not see any defensible reason for the negative comments directed at myself or at my collecting focus. Steve, it is ironic that you used the word "attack" in your "apology" for that is exactly what you did to me.

Ask yourselves if it is ever appropriate to attack a fellow collector. One who has with care and enthusiasm participated in the discussions on this board. I will not apologize for collecting what I like despite the prejudices of the "more experienced collectors".

To those of who who have been kind and friendly a very big thank you for all the assistance and encouragement you have provided. To the others, you have succeeded in chasing off a passionate collector who wanted no more than to share his passion. I will do so elsewhere.

 

Hey dude, I'm sorry if I hurt your coin-feelings ...

Oh, but I'm sure that you'll land on your feet (you sound like a great guy)

=> if we were in a bar, I'd buy you a drink for ruffling your feathers

Good luck finishing-off your 12 Caesar Collection

 

You should buy him a coin instead Steve.

 

My gawd => note to self => remind me "never" to mention The Twelve Fricken Caesars ever again!!

 

That sucks. I enjoyed you here.

Some here tease without realizing "tone" isnt something we here when reading words on a screen like we can in-person when joking around.

I haven't been posting much mainly due to much of the topics are out of my collecting area or boring.

And threads like these tend to drift off topic at times or turn into a "like" spam thread.