Another shady Ebay offer

http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNSEARCHED-...195621?hash=item419f762a25:g:oZ0AAOSwYHxWMUXC

This is like those Jeffscoins jars, showing valuables on the outside, but the inside is probably filled with dateless buffs and wheats.

And here's a classic:

♣ 1916 Mercury Dime ♣

Unknown grade and unknown mint, if this has a D mint mark, up to $500-$850

Ah, another offer with the deciding side not facing us... You tell us, you put it there. I wouldn't be surprised if circulated 1916 and 1916-S Mercs become rare because of these offers.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

There is an absolute ZERO chance that 16-P or 16-S Mercs will "become rare" because of jar shams. These people could stuff 16-Ds in them and not make a dent in availability as even they are simply not rare coins. Popular yes, but not rare nor even scarce.

As long as certain buyers are drawn to the dream of that great "deal", and as long as a certain type of seller is drawn to easier money, this type of thing will continue unless ebay puts the brakes on. I just noticed a fellow member is selling an "old jar" of wheat cents, and while he makes no claims as to what may be inside, he's certainly trying to cash in on that "dollar and a dream" mentality. Just like the rolls or "mystery lots" that peaked your interest, it's nothing but sucker bait, plain and simple.

 

Regarding rarity, and scarcity, I have always wondered who determines that. I had the impression scarcity is 1,000-10,000 coins, while rarity is fewer than 1,000 coins. The 1916-D Merc dime has an estimated availability of about 6,000 if I am correct.

 

Your probably right. If I ever had the money and didn't care that I was wasting it, I would buy one of these just so see what it get. Like to said its most likely that's it's filled with junk.

5 bucks says it's me.

 

And there is absolutely no reason whatsoever why he shouldn't sell off coin accumulations this way.

Some people actually LIKE grab bag deals--even when they realize they aren't going to get rich. They simply like the idea of getting a large amount of unknown coins to go through at one time. Many also enjoy "the dream" more than they enjoy the amount of money it costs them to play.

Sucker bait? Often, but so is the PowerBall. Doesn't make the individual state governments which participate shady. Merely means that they are providing a wanted service.

 

Please...

"Unknown coins to go through at one time"? Sure, unknown to the buyer, but certainly not the seller, which goes to the very point. When one buys an "old jar", do you not think it is with the expectation of a potential "discovery"? Of course it is, and is why it wasn't advertised as "searched common cents stuck in a jar". Sucker bait is something dangled in front of potential buyers hoping for a score, but offers no chance of winning. Disagree if you like, but that is exactly what this is, the OP's example and mine.

And as for lottery, government participation does not make something a picture of piety, and it could reasonably be argued that they are, in fact, shady. Such "programs" are often marketed towards those who can least afford it, or worse yet, those who shouldn't be spending their handouts gambling, and if you've ever gone into certain stores at certain times of the month you should know that they're not simply some innocent program catering to demand, or that allow for a little recreational "fun". In their defense though, at least they offer the chance of a "win"; something that cannot be said for the offerings you seem intent on defending.

 

But it is a old jar! I didn't claim the coins in it were old it just said the jar is old. I'm not baiting anyone I'm just saying what it is.

 

No kidding, Sully... I even said you made no direct claims; try actually READING what I originally posted. Need I quote myself to refresh your memory?

Now, since you thought it wise to bring this to light, why place 1000 common wheats into an "old jar" instead of simply offering in an easily-shipped bag or even rolled? Unless you want to pretend this is convenient way of packaging, just want to up the cost of shipping, or increase the chances of a customer complaint (due to the increased chances of damage during transit), there's only one reason, and we both know what that is. You didn't simply say "jar" for the simple fact that "old jar" coupled with old coins implies potential where you know damn well there is none. Had you only wished to "say what it is", why not state "1000 searched common wheats in a jar"? Again, we both know why and what this is, so don't play innocent and pretend it wasn't done by design.

 

Umm but it wasn't. I bought this as a lost that came with the jar. I had to pay for the jar so I'm not taking the coins out and spending time organizing them to lose money. I didn't say jar because I wanted to note that it is an old jar. That's what it is and good luck disputing that. I still saying what it is and my title isn't lying about anything. The product I'm selling is 1,000 wheat cents in a old Mason Jar. Why did I not use your title? Because I don't need to. Because you are keeping such good notes on me, you should know that I listed it three times and no one bought it. If I was selling the dream don't you think it would have sold? I wasn't by design.

 

It isn't selling because people know it's a scam, Sully, whether it's in your heart to scam (I don't believe that) or not.

 

If it looks too good to be true then its TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE!! Always check the buyer's feedback an rating of the vendor also as its an indication of honesty and integrity of the seller.

 

Actually, the $35 dollar price for a jar of Wheats isn't what bothers me. When I first began collecting Wheats and needed every common date, this might have actually held some interest for me. Truth be told, I might have actually saved a lot of money buying Sully's Magic Mason Jar (depending on how many and what dates are included).

What bothers me, to no end, is shipping charges of $21.95!! I'm sure the weight of the jar adds to shipping charges. So why not do away with the stupid jar, roll or bag the pennies and offer it at a much more reasonable cost. When I see an ad like this one, my first thought is that the Seller has turned the shipping costs into a secondary profit stream. That reeks of slimy, and unscrupulous business practices and is an immediate turn off for me.

When your defense begins with, "It is an old jar", you've admitted your deception. In your heart of hearts, you know that leaves you wide open to criticism from your brothers and sisters in the hobby. For a $35 dollar jar of worthless pennies, I would not sell my reputation within the community.

 

I will say, that there was one time when I ran across a legit time where there was a true unsearched jar. Back in Pgh, at an estate sale, a very old woman found her childhood coin collection that she had in a glass jar. We tried everything to get her to sell it, but she absolutely refused to sell it... Even for a $100 offer. She made it clear that she wouldn't sell it for any price.

 

"Keeping notes"? Please.... Detecto, oops, I mean Sully; don't flatter yourself. I'm going to let you in on a little secret here.. most people have this thing called a "memory" which allows them to recall things said from one thread to the next. Should I have forgotten that I saw your ADVERTISEMENT posted on this very forum, or perhaps I should simply erase from memory past threads/discussions regarding your little business? When mentioning that a member was selling a jar, I didn't give the person's username, so this all would be a non-issue had you not thought it a fine idea to out yourself. Sometimes, like it or not, it's best just to keep ours mouths shut instead of jumping face first into a hole.

Now, you certainly do not need to do anything I (or anyone else) suggests; you're the six months "expert" here, Sully, and everyone else just a bunch of idiots who have certainly never been in your lofty shoes before. None of us have ever sold a coin, on ebay or anywhere else, so how would we know anything? You're the first guy who has ever come up with the revolutionary idea that he can buy coins, sell coins, and make money, so you just keep doing what you do best. Keep relisting this "old jar" you haven't bothered to search (har, har) and hopefully someone will bite; after all, no hotshot "dealer" has ever had to eat a bad buy before and neither should you. Waste your precious teenage time opening a jar (oops, "old jar") of coins just to be sure nothing slipped through? Ha! Change your claims from "unsearched" (yes, I do remember) to whatever you think might fly this time. Keep upping your shipping charge; we all know that when something doesn't sell because it's already overpriced, the best thing to so is make it cost more. Do whatever you want, Sully.. like I said, you're the "expert" and I'm sure potential buyers, if only they could read your CT justifications, would certainly see this for what it, ahem, really is. Truth does matter, but perception trumps all; perhaps some day this will make sense.

I was young once too, Sully, and similar to you, I knew everything. There was no reason for me to even consider the advice given by the stupid old fools just trying to help because I knew it all. The funny thing was that in time it became readily apparent that these fools, who had spent twice my then lifetime in this business/hobby, we're all too often right. Fortunately for me, I was lucky enough to realize this before completely screwing myself. Perhaps the same will happen to you, or perhaps not; I couldn't care less if you prosper legitimately or fall on your face. What I will do though, is call a dog a dog when I see it. Good luck to you.

 

Busted.

 

Back to the original $1,950 jar of coins that started this thread: Such an amount would give a beginner a great start on a real coin collection. That's what I don't like: an uninformed potential collector wasting their time and money on pie-in-the-sky items like this and being left with a sour taste about collecting.

 

If I recall correctly, the estimated survival numbers for the 16-D is about 10,000, but it wouldn't surprise me if the true number was higher. I know the total PCGS pop was well into the thousands, and can only assume NGC has fairly similar numbers. Im not sure about the lesser TPGs, but there are a LOT of genuine examples still out there raw, even if most are either low grade or problems. There is also a lot of coins that haven't seen the light of day for a very long time that will, over the next 10-20 years, come out of hiding, so who knows what the numbers will look like in the future.

Take a look on ebay for 16-Ds... today, tomorrow, next week or month, and take note of how many are available, while remembering this certainly does not represent all examples presently for sale. When one can, at any minute of the day throughout the year, year after year, acquire a certain date/mint with zero effort, should they rightfully be labeled rare or scarce? Sure, they may be "rare" or "scarce" when compared to other painfully common dates/mints, but if something like this rightfully deserves either label, what to call the many coins with survival rates that are just a small fraction of your posted numbers?

As for your question about who determines what is rare or scarce, I suppose it all must come down to the individual. In my eyes, no coin is "rare" unless it will be difficult to impossible to find over, perhaps, a few years, and isn't "scarce" unless finding one will take a reasonable amount of work, but your feelings may be different. Unfortunately, both terms have been so misused that they've become near meaningless anyway.

 

To me, it's how many 16-d's survived in reasonable condition. Judging by prices for MS, not too terribly many. Go over to EBay and you can spend hundreds on something that looks like it was put on a railroad track by a kid.

 

That's "condition rarity" and is an entirely different ball game than what has been thus far discussed, coin dependent, of course.