1882-CC Received Wrong Coin, What to do/What Would it Grade?

It's possible the seller was being deceptive, but I default to "never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity." Coin imaging is not as easy as it looks, and not everyone's an expert.

 

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I've flipped back and forth on my opinion on whether it is the same coin or not judging from the picture but it all boils down to one thing for me......if I like the coin for the cost, I'd keep it, if not, send it back. How's that for a run-on sentence?

 

To me its all about the OP first post, which states " I Bought It Because It Was A DMPL " . Which its not ....

 

I can't be sure that it's the same coin. What I do know is that it will be hard to prove if it's not the same. I recently bought an un-circulated CC coin from ebay and was latter told by a professional grader that it had been cleaned and worth just over cull. I suggest that you take it to a professional grader and find out what it's worth. Then you can decide to keep it or file a claim.

 

Yeah, it's tuff to say. I see some marks that seem to maybe match and others that dont. Could be lighting trickery. If it walks like a duck and all...
There's that guy on ebay that sells semi-pl morgans and advertises them as dmpl w/ 20" mirrors and somehow photographs them making you believe it. I don't know what to think so this situation is at the op's discretion. If you wanted a dmpl you didn't get it. If you paid too much for what you got even if you like it send it back and buy the dmpl you wanted with the $ or one similar to what you got for less than what you paid that guy

 

Well, I think you are wrong there--I think the seller did exaggerate the pictures. Doesn't matter, as the coin is what it is, and you are the one who has to be happy with it, not us. I will repeat that the coin you got is nicer than the coin as advertised, whether or not it is the same coin. The original coin was unquestionably NOT a DMPL--one thing for certain is that GSAs have been very carefully picked through over the years, and any DMPL would have been picked up by a collector or seller a long time ago and graded as such. Remember that the GSA horde was vast, and open to a lot of individuals--these are not rare coins.

 

You sort of contradict yourself. You assert that all GSAs have been carefully picked through over the years, but ask to remember that the GSA horde was not only vast, but open to a great deal of people who are not necessarily collectors. Those two statements don't add up. The latter statement is more accurate; the GSA horde was vast. And while a great many of these coins were scrutinized and cherry picked, there are so many out there in grandfathers' attics that your former statement cannot be accurate. There are simply people out there who dont even know what a DMPL coin is. When I picked up this coin I showed my buddy at work with whom I recently shared my love of coins with. He watched one of those videos that tells you the difference between proof, uncirculated, etc. and looked at my coin and goes "that's not uncirculated, look at all the scratches on it". My point is that some people wouldnt even know a good coin from a bad coin, let alone DMPL from another, and those coins are out there. While pragmatism is always valued, it is a slippery slope between that and cynicism.

I have no disagreement about the coin being nicer than expected. I just don't think the seller enhanced the original photos to make a coin look DMPL, whether it was one or not. I mean, if you look at his other items for sale, hes selling razors and costume jewelry.

 

The two coins are undoubtedly different, it really shouldnt be a question. But that guy on ebay, I have been burned by when I started out. Those are truly deceptive photos and downright unscrupulous.

 

The statements are NOT at all contradictory---dealers and collectors have gone over the GSA horde extensively. You are not the only one to attempt to "cherry pick" a good one, and if you think so, you're not being accurate. Average collectors might not know a DMPL, but for sure, dealers do, and most of those that are out there have been grabbed up. If you're really that determined not to listen to experience, and know that the odds of finding such a coin, and paying 63 or 64 money for it are dim, then go right ahead. Just trying to give you the voice of someone who has seen literally thousands in all grades, and know that if you truly want a DMPL cc dollar---expect to pay for it. If the seller didn't artificially enhance the coin (and I DO believe that he did), it certainly doesn't look anything like the original pictures. Okay, let's give the seller the benefit of the doubt--he didn't enhance the pictures, and it is the same coin. Then, they were poor pictures that did not represent the coin accurately. eBay really is NOT a good source for buying coins like that, if you don't have the experience that you say you lack. As regards them going 30% over price guide--that is a warning sign right there. Price guide is fiction to begin with--most collectors work from greysheet prices. Not being in the least cynical, just relating the fact that Morgans are a difficult market, and finding bargains are few and far between. It is the same with OGH coins--everybody thinks they're under graded and wants to buy them and submit for a higher grade. Been there/ done that--submitted 20 of them once and only got ONE upgrade. Same goes for GSA Morgans and finding DMPLS in a haystack. Don't believe me? That is just fine, but I think you're a nice guy who is taken in by the allure of bargains on eBay, and that isn't a great source of bargains. The realities are--you received a nice coin. I said from the beginning that I believe it is a 65, and that you may we'll get an upgrade from NGC. However, if you wish to return it, work out a fair and equitable settlement with the seller.

 

You guys are starting to worry me. Here is a pic of the coin from my listing:

Here is a pic of a coin he sold previously that turned out to be the coin I received:

Here is a pic of one of my DMPL coins:


Lastly, this is the coin I received taken with my iPhone. It actually looks BETTER than the seller's photo (well, at least the luster).


I will argue that the seller DID NOT doctor the first photo. Why would someone take a photo that bad to doctor it? You can see his camera and ring in the GSA case, same as the next photo. The only difference is you can see the reflection of the camera in the coin of the first photo. Notice how nothing gets reflected in the coin in the second photo. I can also photograph a coin to make it look not DMPL, like in the third photo. But if you had it in hand you'd be able to shave with it.

I really can't believe people don't see the prooflike qualities of the first coin. If you look at the other photos in the listing, it will become very apparent.

What the seller did (and admitted to) is use the SAME photos for three different listings. Doctoring the photos is really secondary to using different photos altogether.

Either way, this matter has been resolved and I am quite happy with the coin I received.

 

I am holding a PL Morgan in my hand on my desk as I write this. That coin in the picture simply is NOT proof like. However, based on the pictures of the one that you received, I reiterate that if you send it off, you would be quite happy with the grading results in my opinion. It is a beautiful coin--nice and clean, as some of the GSAs are very baggy. I have seen baggier coins than yours get an easy 65 grade. So, I agree--enjoy the coin. Whatever happened with the photo, the original one and the one you got bear no resemblance to each other. I actually PREFER the one you got, so enjoy it, and it is resolved.

 

I think there may be some confusion in what we are arguing. If you are saying the coin in the original listing is the same coin I received, we cannot proceed because you are dead wrong. I started this thread because I do listen to experience, and have taken your advice very earnestly. You make some valid points but others are distorted by preconceptions. I have not seen thousands and thousands of Morgans, but I am not dim. I bought a raw coin on eBay I paid MS60 money for, it is so rare no one has it in their registry. I got very lucky. I was taken in by the allure of bargains on eBay, and I have been burned also. There is never a black and white of an issue, it is always grey. In this case there is a median between overinflated dealer prices and bottom feeding scammers on eBay. That would comprise the meat of the bell curve. There are dealers who offer very reasonable prices for their wares, and there are fools on eBay listing an 1883 CC GSA for $800 because it is "rare". My point is that generalizations are always wrong (see what I did there).

Honestly, I don't even know what the argument is. I think the main point above is "don't even try to find a good coin on eBay, only dealers have all the good coins". We are basically agreeing on most accounts. The coin I received is awesome, and people on eBay can be shady.

 

I prefer it as well. I appreciate your opinion as I was worried I paid too much. We are going to have to agree to disagree on that first picture.

 

I will add to the confusion. If you look closely at the seller's listing, I am pretty sure he has two different coins in his pictures. The first 3 pictures are one coin and 5 through 10 are a different coin. (I cannot tell about #4.)

 

Sean, you bought the coin because you thought it was DMPL, or this image With your image,now you know its not Again, seller image is to fool you .
You yourself said so ( DMPL, or first image )
Stop fooling yourself .
If you like the coin keep it, it doesn't matter if it was the right one .

 

Those are two different coins - the one he bid on, and the one he received.

 

Doesn't matter if its two different coin .
More reasons the seller was tring to keep fooling you ...

 

Are you trying to say the first image you posted was doctored by the seller? Im hoping not, but your post was a tad confusing - as this thread itself has become - and it seems to read that way.

 

I think he is saying the seller put a different picture on the listing in order to fool me into thinking it was DMPL, which is interesting because others on this thread swear there is no way it could have been DMPL. That is what is confusing,there are people saying he doctored images to look like DMPL, and people saying he used different pictures to pretend the coin was DMPL. Then there's people who think they are the same coin.

The seller undoubtedly used different photos than the coin I received. The cynical view is that it was used to deceive me. If that was so, and if there are so many who think the coin in the original listing could not have been DMPL, why would he post a coin with way more bag marks and generally worse condition then send me a 65? If he wanted to alter a photo to look DMPL, why would he choose a coin with more bag marks? The logic doesn't make sense. So basically we have to agree either that the coin in the first listing was DMPL and the seller knew it and used it to sell me a non-DMPL coin, or the seller used different photos out of something other than malice.

So we know he used different photos because this is something he said he did. I tend to think he did it because he was lazy and thought all Morgans look the same. Others seem to think many different theories all pointing toward deception.