Frustrated by supposed price lists

I'm still slowly going through some coins to sell, and now when I was looking up prices for an Indian head gold $5 piece - how am I supposed to interpret the listed prices? Are those what I would pay if buying retail from a dealer?

I'm hoping ideally to find a collector where I can ask more than a dealer would pay me, while still offering it to him for less than he'd pay retail.

 

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Well, it really depends on condition, but the average right now is like $600. So, if you were to go to a dealer and give it to him, he might give you $350-$400 (depends on the dealer) If you were selling on ebay, you'd sell it for retail, or $600. I think i know what you're asking, if i have the wrong idea, tell me. Thanks.

-John

 

Thanks, John - that's a nice photo of you.

So when you say the "average," do you mean the "average retail price to a shopper"? To me, if a dealer would be offering me $400, and a retail store selling for $600, I'd hope to sell it to a collector for $500 - and we'd both have benefitted.

By the way, I do not in any way regard Ebay as a reliable indicator of "retail." Ebay has been great for some things, like connecting a small-town seller with a larger audience than he could ever get in pre-internet days. But it's creating what I consider a very dangerous rush-to-the-bottom, which you can especially see in certain areas, like books.

 

"photo"

Any-ho, by retail i mean the average price of the coin. Retail may have been a bad word, my mistake. I'd recommend posting a picture of your coin and letting our buddies here grade it for you. Whatever they tell you what it's worth is what you can put it on ebay. Or, you can find an ebay auction with a similar picture of your coin, and replicate the price. Excuse me, i almost forgot, If you don't have ebay, go to a nearby dealer. He should be thrilled to buy it off you!
Cheers!

-John

 

Well, that's another problem: I'm completely non-tech. I'm not able to take a picture, but when I tried, as an alternative, doing a scan of a photocopy, I couldn't manage to get it uploaded. Maybe I'll try again.

So far, dealers - well, I wouldn't say thrilled... Dealers have been willing to buy the American coins, but even less willing on the foreign coins, which surprised me. But, in any case, it bothers me being so blatantly low-balled. I've also been surprised to find dealers who aren't particularly knowledgeable. I'd kind of thought of trying coin clubs, but they're mostly completely unwelcoming!

 

Honestly, don't bother scanning a photocopy. It won't tell us anything.

There are several price guides, each of which tries to hit a specific niche. And all of which are somewhat theoretical.

There is a guide for sight-unseen certified coins - that's a price that two dealers would trade a coin based on the certified grade. Works OK for run-of-the-mill MS62 Morgans, but for any unusual or rare coin, they are no longer all equivalent.

There is a guide for dealer transactions (the Greysheet) which shows bid and ask prices (bid is supposedly what a dealer would pay and ask is what they would sell for). The problem with the Greysheet is that they'll sell copies to any Tom, Dick or Harry. Thus all of us visit coins shows expecting to buy at bid. So dealers pay 10% or 20% below ("back") of bid and sell at bid.

There are retail price guides (the coin magazines, several on-line guides) which show approximately what you would expect to pay at a bricks & mortar shop.

Remember, the world of numismatics is so broad, that a dealer can't be expert in much of anything, let alone everything. Even within US coins - dealers specialize in Early American Coppers (EAC), Classic coins, Modern Coins, etc. So if you take your collection of, say Lincoln Cents to a dealer who specializes in Seated Liberty coinage... he may recognize the 1909S VDB and the 1955 double die, but not much else. Or the inverse.

As much as there is to know from 250 years of US coins, the book of knowledge for world coins is many times as large. The 'catalog' is something like 5 volumes each the size of a big phone book. And there are not a lot of shops selling 'world coins' - so your chances of a random shop being knowledgeable in what you have is small...

There are price guides on the NGC and PCGS sites - those represent retail prices for coins in the grade certified ONLY by that company.

And I could keep going,,,

 

I'm a long time extensive buyer of these coins, only acquiring same in a certified condition. Based on your comments, I'm suspecting that the $5 Coin you were trying to price is in a "raw" coin state.

Most coin price lists are unrealistic, including the current "Grey Sheet" bid values, and generally represent a dealers dream price. These prices are normally unrelated to current realistic market values.

Regardless of your feelings towards eBay, generally their sales values are reflective of the retail market, and I'd suggest you locate coins of the same date and condition on eBay to establish a gross sales price for your coin.

Generally, the condition of the coin will quickly be determined by the detail of the Obverse "headband", and the feather detail at the top of the Reverse left wing. If all of the diagonal lines in the "headband" are not complete, you probably have a low grade coin which generally will show few to no feather detail at the top of the Reverse wing.

Generally, if the coin doesn't have a prominent mint mark on the reverse, the coin will not command a "premium". The 1909-D will also generally fall into this pricing category. The S mint coins generally command a premium.

In a minimal condition, raw state, I'd expect a ~$300 offer from a dealer, and a net value received from an eBay sale of $350-$375. I can currently regularly acquire these coins in a certified EF-AU state for $425-$475

I hope this information is useful.

JMHO

 

Someone may have already mentioned this (I'm too lazy to check at this hour), but it's helpful to check out recent auction prices to get an idea of what would be within the neighborhood (or at least the same ZIP code) of a fair price. Here's PCGS's version. It includes auction prices for PCGS, NGC, ANACS, and ICG.

http://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/

 

I'm hoping to sell a 1911 Indian head $5 gold piece, previously mentioned, and hoping to sell it for better than the $300 that dealers have offered me...if only I can connect with the right person. (I'm ignorant about condition, but if I had to guess...VF.)

Then last night I suddenly noticed that it has a tiny, tiny notation of "BLE" or possibly "BLF." So just wanted to ask quickly, since I may be showing it to someone in the next day or so - what is it, and does it materially affect the value?

Thanks for any information!

 

BLP - The initials indicate the Indian head gold coin's designer, Bela Lyon Pratt.

Is it a Philly or a Denver mint as there is a big price difference!!

 

I read your other thread before this one and feel it's only right to point out that the $600 estimate was given by a 13 year old kid and is wholly unrealistic for the coin you now describe. With all due respect to the young man, this is a fine example of why, when giving advice, it is of absolute importance to know what you're talking about, or at least not throw out numbers until having enough information to intelligently do so.

With the understanding that you're admittedly not that familiar with grading, this dealer's $300 offer isn't at all unreasonable for a well circulated 11-P. Sure, you may be able to get a little more selling on your own, but at what cost? Your time and the potential risk (loss, theft, ebay, etc) are, or at least can be, worth money. This isn't a coin that your average dealer is licking his chops over. It is common and fairly low margin material that the guy will pull a minimal profit from. The fact is that no collector in their right mind is going to pay the earlier-mentioned "mutually beneficial" $500 (other thread) for it assuming your description is indeed correct.

 

Recent sale prices for raw on ebay are $350-$400 range. After fees, $300 is not far off. Who said average of $600? Geeze, I need to sell them some of my coins.

 

Ignorant about condition?? Here is a good site for picture grading!!
http://coinauctionshelp.com/US_Coin_Grading_Guides.html#.VjAOVMtZ1hY

 

Many thanks - but I hope I'm clear that I'm not in any way saying that the dealer offers are not reasonable. But he does have to factor in his profit, and I'm startled to find that these days, most people envision a 100% profit. I only meant that it would be nice if I could connect with a collector and we could split that difference.

 

You did see me say these are going for $350 to $400 raw on ebay, right? After fees, how would that be 100% profit if he pays $300 for it?

 

$300 sounds fair for a VF coin. XF about $320.

 

And that brings you back to ebay, about the only place you can present your coin to a lot of collectors directly. They will offer you more than the dealer does but less than they can buy it for from a dealer, and then after ebay and paypal take their cut you may get a small amount more than the dealer offered (or possibly even a little less), but with more headache.

 

I just saw some reference site that said the one could reasonably expect a dealer to charge around $450, I think it was.

JWitten, I was talking about real-life dealers, not Ebay posters. Personally, I don't consider Ebay a reliable indicator of worth.

By the way, Burton Strauss III, I think part of the point of the scan was just because sometimes people imagine that you're making it all up unless they see ome kind of visual!

And, forgive my ignorance, but does "raw" just mean without an official grading?

 

Yes... raw is a generic term for a coin not certified.

Also, while ebay can be an iffy real world value indicator, with something like this it's not going to be far off, and if fact, likely to be higher in many instances.