Rome, Sweet Rome

Saw this in the news yesterday. Thought it interesting:

"It was a hypothetical question that became a long online discussion and now a movie in development: Could a small group of heavily armed modern-day Marines take down the Roman Empire at its height?"
An MEU typically contains about 2200 troops, along with their artillery and vehicles. According to the original reddit story, the Marines are transported back in time with what they have with them, including M1 Abrams battle tanks, bulletproof vests, M4 rifles, and grenades.

The year chosen (23 B.C.) falls in the reign of Augustus, great-nephew of Julius Caesar and considered the first Roman emperor. His legions numbered nearly 330,000 men. They wore heavy leather and metal armor, carried swords and javelins, and operated catapults. They would have never heard the sound of an explosion before. "Obviously, there is a massive difference in firepower," says Roman military expert and author Adrian Goldsworthy. "Not only would Roman armor be useless against a rifle round—let alone a grenade launcher or a .50 caliber machine gun—it would probably distort the bullet's shape and make the wound worse."

In the reddit story, however, the Marines would not be resupplied with bullets, batteries, or gasoline from the modern world. "There would be no way of obtaining replacements for these supplies in the ancient world," Goldsworthy says. "An average unit of Marines is not likely to be able to make an oil refinery, start generating electricity, or create machine tools to make spare parts for equipment." And even if they could figure it out, it would take many months or even years. So, as soon as the Marines ran out of gas, their tanks would become little more than hunks of metal.

"In the short term and in the open, modern infantry could massacre any ancient soldiers at little risk to themselves," Goldsworthy says. "But you could not support modern infantry. So all of these weapons and vehicles could make a brief, dramatic, and even devastating appearance, but would very quickly become useless. Probably in a matter of days."

If interested, read the entire article at http://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...-single-marine-unit-destroy-the-roman-empire/

Could be an interesting discussion.

 

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FAKE!!


... oh damn, I jumped the gun!!

 

Huh, I guess they'd have to make every bullet count.

 

Rome, Sweet Rome is supposed to be made into a film, if it ever gets out of development hell!

While you're waiting, this book is along similar lines:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissaries_(novel)

 

Oh please, 2200 Marines could take over Rome bare-handed.

 

The question isn't if they can take it. The question is - can they hold it?

 

Of course not. Nobody could ever hold Rome.

 

They could take it and sell it for gold, and be the richest marines in the world.

 

The question I see is whether someone in Rome would figure out that Marines are dependent on resupply. They have fuel and ammunition for a certain amount of time and then things would change. The OP mentions the problem but if Rome knew, they could make their first wave of attackers slaves and provincials reserving the real legions until the tables had turned. Intelligence would allow saving the legions.

 

This is a fun discussion. To keep things honest...


Augustus Caesar, BC 27 - 14 AD
AE, As, 9.5g, 27mm; 2h; Rome mint, BC 6
Obv.:CAESAR AVGVSTVS PONT MAX TRIBVNIC POT; bare head right
Rev.: A LICIN NERVA SILIAN IIIVIR AAAFF around large SC with dot between

I think an intelligent group of Marines would realize that every shot would have to matter and would have to leverage their firepower for political gain in order to survive. Maybe recruit a high ranking general who isn't the favorite.

I like the below coin and I haven't had many chances to post it so it's going here. I was working on attributing it but the reverse doesn't look like any matches on Wildwinds.

 

I like Adrian Goldworthy's books. I agree with @dougsmit . And if you take the thought a little further: the only REAL difference between then and now is advancement of technology. However, the minds and practical knowledge has not really changed over the last 2000 years. Once you exhaust the technology, they are LESS than on an even playing field with the Romans. It would not take long for an intelligent human to figure out that when their god-like powers have limitations, then they will be dead meat.

 

Agreed with @Jwt708 , my only Augustus...


Roman Empire
AR Denarius, 17.03mm, 3.76g
Augustus (27 BCE - 14 CE)
Lugdunum mint (2 BCE - 4 CE)
REV: C L CAESARES AVGVSTI F COS DESIG PRINC IVVENT, Gaius and Lucius Caesars standing, shields and spears between them.
Sear 1578, RIC 206

 

The biggest problem I see is the modern day thought of humanity versus the Roman thought. I think the Roman version would be much more barbaric in modern day terms where life was less precious, especially towards the lower classes which comprised most of the legions.

 

Agreed. Today's societies resolved that in the last 100-200 years with universal education. However, not too many years prior to that, we had that dichotomy of classes.

 

Sorry, I meant to send you this...

Elagabalus, AD 218-222
AE23, 6g; Nicaea, Bithynia.
Obv.: M AVPH ANTΩNINOC AVG; Laureate head right.
Rev.: N-IK-AI-E-[ΩN] beneath the masts of legionary standards; eagle facing, head right, wings spread, between two standards surmounted by capricorns.
Reference: SNG Cop 512.

 

But...but...I don't have a copy of SNG Cop or know where to reference it online. Looking at Wildwinds the coin they have has a different reverse: NI-KA-IE-ΩN and coins from Severus Alexander have the same reverse and it looks like there was something under the standards that was worn/off flan.

Didn't mean to hijack the thread.

I like Adrian Goldsworthy too; in fact I have a couple of his books on my shelf. The one I can see from here is "Cannae," a battle I've studied a little.

 

Are you looking at SNG Cop 512 at Wildwinds? It's the right coin, but sometimes the spacing of the letters between the standards varies, so I'd call yours SNG Cop 512 var. It should go to Dane, not only for the variety, but yours is a MUCH better example.

 

hmmm...remember these little turds beat up on guys with blast rifles and armored vehicles.



i was rooting for the empire.

 

Yeah, good point, lol.

 

For surgical strikes, marines would be incredible. But with no consistent logistics, they would be ground down.