How do we get eBay to treat sellers fairly again?

Have you stopped, even for a moment over the last four years, to think about and ask yourself if, perhaps, there could be a valid reason for this? I fully understand that assuming the worst is often easiest, but that doesn't make it right.

First, you may want to consider the fact that a transaction is not truly completed until the buyer receives and is pleased with their purchase, so waiting until this time to leave feedback is both reasonable and understandable. Also, think about the position ebay has placed most of their sellers in with having precious little recourse against buyers more interested in games than the wares offered. While you may have been an upstanding and honest buyer, the same certainly cannot be said for everyone. Withholding feedback until knowing a buyer is pleased may not be a strong tool or greatly benefit the seller in case of a problem, but it's something, which is certainly better than nothing.

You said you "buy, pay, give immediate feedback", so does this mean feedback was left long before your item had been received? It is hard to imagine you would leave feedback before knowing your part in the transaction has been fulfilled, or would recommend someone as a good seller (the reverse of a seller recommending one as a good buyer) before they've shown themselves to be one.

 

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I can't explain it GDJMSP. IMO, the good sellers far outweigh the bad ones. Yes, I agree that positive feedback does not always equate to great sellers, but I also don't feel that feedback in general is worthless.

Yes, I think I can tell from the negative feedback. Some that I've read, I've dismissed because of what and how they wrote it.

It's not perfect, but I believe there is some value to it. It's not the only thing I use to make my decision to buy/bid, but it's one of the elements.

 

I'm too lazy to look, but I think there are quite a few threads complaining about eBay. And with the exception of those buyers complaining about sellers selling counterfeits, or "unsearched rolls", or the rip-off scheme of the week, most are directed towards eBay's policies and fees by sellers. While it may not be reasonable or practical, the only real way to change the fees and policies is to simply stop using the venue. eBay generates no fees if nothing sells. Yet we continue to use the site. Why? Because it offers the widest audience for whatever market you serve, is a reasonable cost compared to any other venture, including brick and mortar, mail order, or street corner stands. And there are enough sellers making big money that it will continue. It's the little fish in the big pond that squeak the most. But you need a whole lot of these little fish to vote with their wallets before eBay considers a change.

Back to the OP original topic, it'd be interesting to see more details on what, exactly, the buyer said. Did he claim to spend large sums on eBay in general, or is he a frequent customer of the OP's? In the first case, too bad. In the second, is he a frequent enough buyer that he'd not be out of line asking? Or is this more along the lines of the guy in the soup kitchen line, who hasn't worked in years, telling the police officer he's a "taxpayer, you work for me" deal?

Anybody who does any selling outside of eBay can tell similar stories of customers who act like this. The difference, the internet is anonymous, so any fears of public embarrassment are nil, compared to a face-to-face confrontation over the same topic. And, there are way more people on eBay, as opposed to face-to-face meetings, that the chances of having to deal with a buyer like this goes up exponentially.

Sounds like you have some recourse. You can cancel the sale, block him as a bidder, and turn the emails over to eBay. That's probably the one advantage to using this venue. Most correspondence is in writing, so there is a record of what's been said.

 

I do 99% of my selling through Instagram now. So much easier. You can add videos of coins too, which is nice for toners. Also, don't have to pay eBays BS fees.

 

Honestly did not want to start a debate.
I buy, never sell or trade, so I only look at it from my perspective.
I buy, seller gets their money, as a customer I have done my part. I expect immediate feedback. That is, if the seller wants me to buy from him again.
That's the only side I see, so I apologize for not seeing it from the sellers point of view.

 

I agree, totally ridiculous how long it takes to list one stinkin item! Not to mention taking photographs and editing those.

 

No apology or debate necessary, sir... was only showing another side.

Welcome to the forum.

 

That's pretty ridiculous

 

We are all different.

 

Well, there you go. Guess it works out well for you.

 

Well, if a debate rose from your words, it was a decent one.

As a seller, I can see your point but I don't leave immediate Feedback. As a buyer, if you read my auctions - and you're the type who would - you'd see my boilerplate explanation that I won't leave Feedback until I'm sure you're happy with your purchase. This, of course, is irrelevant from a rules standpoint in the current regimen since I can only leave you a Positive, but I do it for psychological effect and to establish longer-term buyer relationships. Coin collectors tend to be a loyal lot.



Back to the OP. Ebay have, these last few years, fallen into the "the bottom line is the only bottom line" corporate mindset and have run their business based solely on P&L nets. They've jettisoned all the little things which made theirs a more solid business for its' users at the cost of a bit of profit. This policy is now coming back to bite them from both a legal and a P&L standpoint. Amazon is plenty big enough these days to fill the void if Ebay vaporizes....

Better for Ebay to just answer the bell and count security as a cost of business. Wring a few more microcents out of each transaction, create an appropriate reaction group (their own former Community Coin Watch is a perfect model), and make it uncomfortable for sellers of counterfeits in all categories. That's how they'll best serve the needs of folks like the OP, who represent the demographic most important to their long-term success.

But when you stare only at P&L, you can't see the long term. I hope they turn their gaze.

 

Do you leave immediate positive feedback as soon as you have paid? Or do you wait to see if the coin is as described to see of you are happy with the deal first? Because that is what the seller is doing, waiting to see if you are happy with the deal. Some buyers can become a real pain with unrealistic demands, requests for partial refunds etc, and some use the threat of negative feedback to extort things from sellers. (Yes I know that is against ebay rules, but ebay isn't always real concerned with enforcing their rules.) But you think the sellers should leave those troublemakers positive feedback as soon as they are paid.

In my opinion feedback should be used to rate the WHOLE transaction, and should not be left until the transaction ends. Seller has been paid, buyer has the coin and is happy, or buyer returns the coin and seller has refunded. At that point rate the transaction.

 

No it's not, I sold an item months ago and the buyer still hasn't left feedback. How should that, in anyway, shape, or form make me a motivated seller to sell on there?

My point exactly. Hell for me, uploading the pictures to my Photobucket account for my records takes the longest

 

As I said, I buy, I pay, I have done my part. Nothing more I can do as a customer. Does Wal Mart thank you as you leave or wait until you get home, make sure your happy, then thank you?

 

If that's your style as a buyer, than don't change if it works for you.

As a buyer on eBay, I wait until I've received the item before leaving feedback. I do expect the seller to leave feedback once the monetary transaction is complete. That's not always the case. I can't quite understand why some don't and wait until I leave positive feedback first. Anyway, it doesn't really matter. I'm not out to scam the seller.

 

What's your eBay ID? I'd like to add you to my blocked bidder list. Saves both of us a lot of headaches.

On topic, I don't see how the issue of RICO assists sellers. I'd think that would be something that benefits buyers. I always thought the SNAD system specifically existed to prevent counterfeits.

 

I thought feedback is a courtesy used to help other sellers and buyers. It's not meant to be a primary tool to complete your transaction, even if you personally use it that way. To my knowledge it is not mandatory. When I did use eBay in the past, I found several individuals who did not participate in the program. This didn't stop the purchase if return privileges were offered on the sale.

 

The whole argument of when to leave feedback is as absurd as what hand is technically correct to use. Whether it's left or right hand, as long as the writing is legible, it is ok. What's next? Compare writing with walmart sales?

Nowhere in ebay does it force sellers and buyers to leave feedback, much less a specific time frame. If there is one, please let us know so that we, as buyers and sellers can work towards a more 'friendly environment'.

At this point of time, if a buyer threatens to leave negative feedback because he / she couldn't get a decent deal from the seller, report it and block him / her. Agreed you might not get much reaction from ebay but they are doing exactly the same thing as you are - read your message, acknowledge it, reply and perhaps maybe do something about it. You run a business, ebay runs a business as well. They will take action if sales are affected. Current care factor? I guess there are better things to worry about.

 

The feedback system is broke. I have to know the dealer.

 

I think everyone in this thread has said the same thing. I've used Ebay a LONG long time. In fact one of my earlier purchases was a handgun. (Yes, legally - through an FFL. Ebay used to allow firearm purchases back in "the day")

I've used them to buy, sell, set prices, etc...

-Ebay is a factor to be reckoned with - like it or not, it's a huge AND accessible marketplace

-Buyers have too much power and influence without responsibility or consequences

-Sellers take on the responsibility and burden of fraud, scams, and unrealistic expectations

I have been scammed a few times. Two are "shame on me" (tried to help a school administrator in China get a rare stamp by saving him shipping - got screwed and he said he never received - out $100, shipped a rare knife, dude returned a different/broken one and I never inspected and reported it - out $150).

I've received negative feedback over a $3 item that was lost in the mail. Jerk got a refund and was out nothing - I on the other hand got negative feedback. Happened 2 times (albeit the second was a much larger item that eventually got returned because the idiot didn't sign for it and it was returned) and I lost my "Top Rated" discount seller status. I just stopped auctions and raised prices to ride it out.

I think the single biggest issue is the buyers having no responsibility in the transaction. Ability to say or do as they wish with no consequences - and everything to gain from the scam.

That has been the one change "for the worse" that has affected most sellers and I believe collectively (contact other collector boards - stamps, beanie babies, etc) we could do something about it.

The other possibility in this great country is the ability to compete. And many are trying to compete with Ebay. If we did this as a group and said "Cointalk Officially Endorses _______ auctions" and got other groups to do it - there is the possibility of a cultural win - AND the fact that Ebay would have to take a look at the consequences of their decisions (and probably try a hostile buy-out of the endorsed auction site). But it would have to be VERY PUBLIC AND OUTSPOKEN to get attention.

If we could get buyers to put skin in the game, we would all be better off. Large groups would have to convince Ebay that their business will go away if we don't get better protection as sellers. There will always be fraud in every walk of life, especially since we coddle criminals and allow them to roam free (until I'm elected President anyhow - in which case I'd be recommending the death penalty for all repeat offenses!)

This all comes down to identity fraud and identity theft. If you had to use one account for life - things would be different. The ability to fire up a new "identity" and get back to scamming is the root source of this issue. I think if Ebay could resolve that - it would do a lot to mitigate the problem.

All of this is predicated on an organized effort. One - or even several dozen people would have no affect. It would have to be "hundreds" to start the movement - and "thousands" to make it happen. Must be able to affect Ebay's bottom line. With PayPal out of the mix - it might be a bit easier to do.

Tawk amongst yehselvez.... I'm getting verklempt!