Hanniaballianus--A tale of two or more coins

As the end of my current bidding spree was ending, I inexplicably lost out on two of my last entries at auction. The most surprising was a Follis of Hanniballianus in just about VF grade---without the scarcer legend break or the missing 'S' in the exergue; due diligence suggested about $300.00 maximum at high retail and so it went until the closing minutes when it ZOOMED past a $500.00 hammer price.

My frustrated and stubborn state of mind made me pull a 'Late Night Greg' and I placed two high 'wholesale' offers to two well-known sellers on e-Bay, fully expecting to be rejected and counter-offered; one did and asked me "to meet him in the middle" and I accepted. Shockingly, the other offer came through a bit later ACCEPTING my low offer....and this one had the trendy CONS instead of CONSS in exergue and in a higher grade than the other I just paid for.

So, now I wonder what everyone else thinks the average 'retail value' for either of these coins is and I welcome any posts of the same scarce 'King' and any 'River Gods' you may have in your collections. I'll post the slightly more costly one first.

Of course, Hanniballiannus was the nephew of Constantine I and was given the title of KING of Armenia, Pontus and Cappadocia, rather than the normal office of Caesar. He was murdered in the power struggle that ensued.

Hanniballianus. Rex Regum, 335-337 AD
Bronze Ae-3, Ric VII 145, Constanople mint, 1,52 grams, 17 mm
FL HANNIBALLIANO REGI, bareheaded, draped and cuirassed bust right
SE CURITAS PVBLICA, Euphrates reclining right, leaning on scepter, urn at his side, urn behind. CONS in exergue

The second is attributed the same, except for RIC 147 the CONSS in exergue and 1.25 grams, 15mm---- as well as listing the denomination Nummus instead of an AE-3 or a Follis, although, as far as I can tell, they are all the same 'animal'..... or are they???



BTW: Discount the usual two or more bidders and 'Any Given Sunday' kind of thing---since this explosion of higher bids has happened with this coin type many times over the last few months

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Jeez Louise. I have yet to get my first Hannibal and you go and get two.

 

Nice scores Mikey.

 

Both look to be excellent, Mikey, but the first one particularly so from what I can see. I hope you'll post some clearer pictures when you have it in hand.

I haven't been keeping up with the prices for these, but this was about $180 shipped two years ago.

 

I'll be the one bringing the bad news Mickey, but I can't stay silent : I'm afraid the first one is a reported fake.

Those are pressed fakes of very good quality that appeared in the begining of the 2000's. I bought one myself (picture below)



I think it's the same manufacturing than yours, especially lacking the second S at the exergue on reverse.

It has been spotted by pscipio on Forvm when I showed it after I had reshot my coins. I give below the link to the discussion that followed. I've been able to send the "pack" to the seller (a reputable and reliable seller from Paris, France, who refunded immediately and had kind words of apologies. I've seen at least one of the same venue since

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=42890.0

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=53522.0

I'm so sorry
Q

 

Well, I can't say I really 'like' that news on that example, but that is one reason I posted these before even receiving them...and that example is from a seller in Germany while the 2nd is from HHC

Now to contact the seller and tell him what I have learned...Jeez, this 'crap' seems almost inescapable these days even when you buy only from reputable dealers or Auction Houses in the USA ....

 

Sorry Mikey. I hate the "F" word on this forum. It's happened to me all too often. Luckily I was able to get refunds each time. Hope you do too. At least I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets fooled. You know, misery loves company.

The second coin is OK then?

 

And for those still wanting to make a further determination of the 1st coin, here's the e-Bay link and seller http://www.ebay.com/itm/252114874133?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

EDITED!!!!

I contacted him and told him to hold off shipping until we both agree as to the coins genuineness.

As for the second from Holding History, I have no reason to suspect otherwise, although the first did seem a bit unusual to me....but Hannibal is one coin I was lacking for decades until now...Well, at least one should be real and both have that e-bay guarantee and PayPal assurance(s).

Bing, you and I will probably be fooled again, but even Museums have a significant number in their possession..... as long as refunds can be realized I'm not terribly distraught, but HIGHLY ANNOYED. I guess it's all part of the collecting world these days and something to work through.

Anyone of a different opinion of coin #1??? I have to agree it's probably fake---but then I thought it was probably not LOL

 

That's a link to a FORVM discussion Mikey.

 

Sorry, I was providing that to the seller I contacted...and he asserts the genuineness of the coin and assures me I can return it for full refund if at all doubtful since it has just been shipped...

I had hoped this thread would be about values of genuine types along with an assortment of posted River Gods---Oh well.......

Here's the e-Bay link of that seller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/252114874133?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I believe I also EDITED the previous post of mine correctly as well...

 

The first one is a die match to the fake posted above and definitely fake as well. I actually went and pulled up all the stuff on that fake first, only to notice it was already posted below! That's what I get for not reading the whole thread.

 

Since Martin has also decreed this to be a fake, I pronounce it official and I'll be returning it for refund credit immediately after it arrives. Well, on the positive side, I still have a genuine lower grade example (post #2 from good old Holding History Coins). LOL

 

Bummer, Mikey, but if you really still want two of these, after you've gotten your refund for the first one, you can still shop around for another .

 

LOL........Nah, I only wanted one and my late-nite shopping--- after being major-league out-bid---- made me try to go for two at once....as I mentioned in the OP. Two was a significant hit on my planned trip to Florida cash later next week (a niece's wedding in Tampa).

Anyway, I spent the last 12 months replacing the missing half of my Ancients (due to an unavoidable sale of the Ancients I had and ALL of my moderns)......so come January, I will bid for two each month and seriously go after one---a kind of quality over quantity kind of thing. And only from the usual auction houses.

Now, I have to check and see if Bing's Tiberius past muster---I think it's real but just heavily worn and circulated, but what the hell do I know LOL

 

Still, the coin from Holding History is nice! And I don't have a Hannibalianus yet - it's on Late Night Greg's shopping list.

I'd like to think I haven't been fooled by fakes either, but given how I almost fell for a Nero Claudius Drusus denarius on eBay the other day (which was deemed an obvious fake by this group) I'm not so sure... I bought a Livia on eBay for a very decent price a couple of weeks ago, which I *think* is real - but Late Night Greg will be banned from eBay in future.

 

I always feel that way, but somehow end back on it 'browsing'....

O course, there are a few very dependable and reputable sellers but FAR TOO MANY others hawking fakes in one way or another...I think Doug just said it best on Bing's post regarding the worn Tiberius denarius...

So, 'late night Mike' will similarly be banned from e-Bay in the future LOL

BTW, please post that Livia, I've been after an example for quite a while now, but never seem to win one or purchase one outright.

 

bummer MZ, i wouldn't have realized it was fake either. however, it looks like the seller has several coins that look questionable to my untrained eye.

well, you have one cool hanniballianus...and that's one more than i do!

late night chrsmat71 is banned from ebay as well.

be he still shows up there every now and then.

 

I also got my coin from Holding History.



You will either get lucky or pay quite a bit of cash for this ruler. I got lucky for a low price. It's low grade and has a hole in it, but hey, I have one.

 

You and jw, sure been having some bad luck, glad your able to get your money back.

 

Wait, wait, wait. The Tiberius looks very much like it's authentic. But I have had a few bad purchases and I have been able to get my money back on each.