Augustus / Agrippa with crocodile tied to palm tree

Hi all

So today this arrived in the mail:




Do we all like this type? Augustus / Agrippa AE As from Colonia Nemausus.

Scarce Agrippa and Augustus AE as from Colonia Nemausus.
Obverse: IMP / DIVI.F. above and below heads of Agrippa and Augustus back to back, that of Agrippa wearing combined rostral crown and laurel wreath, that of Augustus bare.
Reverse: COL.NEM. to left and right of palm-shoot with short, dense fronds behind chained crocodile; to left of palm-tip, wreath with long ties.
26 mm 12.59 gm

Although I'm usually a one-per-ruler collector (I already have a coin each of Agrippa AND Augustus), sometimes something attractive like this catches my eye. I love the crocodile tied to palm tree reverse - symbolising the Roman capture of Egypt (?).

Does anybody else have coins of this type? If so, please post them.

Or do you have any more info about this type?

Mine is worn, but it has character - i love the green patina and light green highlights.

cheers
Greg

 

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Augustus
Coin: Bronze As
IMP DIVI F P-P - Back-to-back heads of Agrippa, in combined rostral crown & laurel wreath, and Augustus, laureate
COL NEM - Long, vertical palm with crocodile chained below, wreath to left of palm tip with ties trailing to right.
Mint: Gaul, Nemausus (10-14 AD)
Wt./Size/Axis: 12.42g / 26mm / -
References:

• RIC 160
• RPC 525

 

Yes, we all like this type .

I only have one and it was a surprise in a pedigreed mixed lot. Upgrading to a better example is always on "the list". Yours would do nicely

Doug has a nice page about the difficulty of grading these coins.

My sad little example:

Augustus & Agrippa
Gaul, Nemausus, c. CE 10-14
AE dupondius
Obv: IMP/DIVI F P-P, back-to-back heads of Agrippa, in combined rostral crown & laurel wreath, and Augustus, laureate
Rev: COL-NEM, long, vertical palm with crocodile chained below, wreath to left of palm tip with ties trailing to right
Ref: RIC 160
ex Professor James R. Eaton (1834-1897) Collection; this coin was in his family until I purchased it from Stacks. Bio of Professor Eaton here.

 

It's a very interesting page by Doug. Grading doesn't necessarily correlate with eye appeal, is the message i guess.

I wonder whether grading of ancients has any value at all. Everybody on eBay grades their coins Fine or better - and often 'rare - when neither is true.

 

Ignore any grading on ebay, and as for "rare" my pet hate is the description:

"Rare unresearched....."

 

Or 'unidentified rare'... If you can't identify it, how can you know it's 'rare'?

Recently I challenged a seller who claimed his 1797 cartwheel penny was 'rare'. His reply: he defines an item as 'rare' if there are less than 50 selling at any given time. So basically anything is 'rare'. Mind you, he didn't supply his peculiar definition in his listing either.

The reasonable person understands a 'rare' coin to be difficult to find. Or maybe it's just me

 

Excellent coin! I can fully understand why you broke one-per-ruler rules for this type and this coin in particular. However, I'm not sure about Augustus being bareheaded on your coin - I see the laurel leaves as well as the ties behind his neck.

Mine...

 

You're probably right.

And your coin is just brilliant!

 

Thanks! Its flaws are obvious to me, but I think with ancients you just celebrate what you can get. In any case, if there were a perfect specimen out there, I wouldn't be able to afford it anyway .

 

I'm not even sure if perfection is worth having. A top-of-the-range "perfect" version of this coin is selling on vcoins for an order of magnitude more than an acceptable-but-lovely specimen. Will the buyer really get ten times the pleasure for ten times the price? And will the buyer reliably be able to sell for that same amount when the time comes? I like coins that have character, I'm not a stickler for perfection.

And as a general observation about ancient coins - I see Fine or Very Fine selling in a predictable range, but an XF coin could sell for anything from the predictable range, to 10x, 20x or whatever crazy price someone wants to pay.

I could be wrong though (i often am).. but this is what i've observed.

 

Octavian and Agrippa

 

Tif mentioned one of my pages on these but I have a second page on them from which this picture was taken. Of course the same coins appear. I have more than one coin per ruler. In fact, There are many more emperors I lack completely than those I have just one.
http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/f00.html


Augustus is bare headed on the earliest series of these and laureate on the rest. The PP only appears on the last ones. Bare headed coins will have the scrawny croc like my first one above. The first half is also from that series but you have to trust the croc style on this since Augustus is cut away. Really perfect specimens can bring over $1000 but entry level coins can be $20. If you must have just one of these, I suggest looking for one that shows the Rostral crown of Agrippa clearly (my second is the best I have). Most are on small flans and lose the ship prow on his head.

 

Another great coin, Greg ... it's always awesome to find somebody else who seems to have the same coin-taste (hey, coin-brother)

Ummm, but then I think to myself "damn that Greg and his sweet croc-coin!! ... nothing good will come of this new Greg character" (*it works better if you read that with your Gollum & Smeagol voices*)



just jokes .... great coin!!

Yah, I have an example ... but sadly, my poor crocodile is missing it's snout (like TIF stated => an upgrade is probably in my future) ...

=> here is my humble addition to your thread ...

 

I've observed the same. Crazy as it may seem, it's simply demand and supply. If people who can afford them continue to pay those prices, that's how they'll continue to be priced.

 

Always pleasant to look at thoses crocs. Here's my example


Augustus & Agrippa, AE Dupondius
Dupondius struck in Nemausus, after 10 AD
4th type
IMP DIVI F PP, Laureate heads of Augustus and Agrippa back to back
COL NEM, Crocodile chained to palm tree
12.84 gr
Ref : RCV #1731, Cohen #8

Should you read french, there's a website with loads of informations on them : http://www.in-medias.fr/sitecroco/pages/monnaie/frappes old.html

Q

 

Augustus & Agrippa AE Dupondius. Nemausus Mint, 20-10 BC. 11.2g, 26mm

OBV: IMP DIVI F, Back-to-back heads of Agrippa, wearing rostral crown, & Augustus, laureate.

REV: COL-NEM, crocodile chained to palm, wreath with long ties trailing above.

REF: RIC 155, Cohen 7, RPC 523, Sear (RCV 2000) 1730, aorta 580

 

I also have a cut example :


Augustus & Agrippa, AE halved dupondius
Halved dupondius struck in Nemausus, after 10 BC
3rd type
[IM]P [DI]VI F , Laureate head of Augustus right
[COL NEM], Crocodile chained to palm tree
6.70 gr
Ref : RCV #1730, Cohen # 10


Q

 

I never get tired of seeing these. Thanks everyone!

 

Simply wonderful posts guys!!! I Love each and every one of them.

My only example is a 'half' alone...which I bought as a 'historical curiousity' for chump change....and is now it's the 'As' it circulated for in antiquity...Obviously, I need an upgrade LOL