China series - Manchu coin

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Loong Siew, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Later Jin (precursor to the Qing Dynasty )

    Abahai. Huang Taiji (1627-1643)

    Obv: Sure Han Ni Jiha (cash of the Sure Khan)
    Rev: Juwan Emu Yan (10 1 tael)

    Hartill 22.8


    The later Jin 后金 was founded by the Jurchen minority whom were descended from the Jurchen of the Jin Dynasty after their annihilation by the mongols. The decline of the Ming Dynasty and the unification of the Jurchen by Nurhaci led to the establishment of a formidable force that threatened the Ming from beyond the great Wall. Abahai (better known as Huang Taiji) succeeded Nurhaci upon his death and changed the name of the Empire to Qing. With the fall of the Ming at the hands of the rebel army led by Linda Zicheng, Abahai collaborated with the Ming General Wu Sangui to jointly eliminate Ling Zicheng's rebel army. Although the coalition was successful, Abahai did not live to seize the throne. Thus the official first Emperor of Qing fell to his son Shun Zi IMG_3382-1.jpg IMG_3383-1.jpg
     
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  3. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Very nice piece Goh. These are very scarce, and this is a very nice one. You are getting me more interested in my Chinese holdings. I go in and out of them. I actually picked up 3 spades at my coin club last week, one of them being a H-3.48 piece documented in a collection in the 1970's. The other two were a Wang Mang spade, (yawn), but the other an exquisite XF pointed spade, also documented in the 1970's. I should pull out my boxes of Chinese and look at them more.
     
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  4. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Thanks @medoraman . This also happens to be one of my favorite cash coins. Not only does it contain non-Chinese script on a cash coin but it is also a solid and heavy piece.

    You are right about this one. It is very scarce and hardly pops up. This was a Heritage Auctions piece and thankfully it was within my range.

    I can see that you do go into Chinese coins quite deeply too. That's really cool and encouraging to know that as well. Most people in the west hardly understand of appreciate this field. :)
     
  5. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Very nice. Beautiful example. I have travelled all over China many times, and love the culture and rich history. I have a scant few Ancient Chinese coins, but I really need to give them more collecting attention since I have been there so much!
     
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  6. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Chinese coins are a very interesting field. But some people find it not as exciting as ancient Greek or western coins due to the common design with the distinction being the characters inscribed on the coin. Unlike the myriad pictures and designs of the latter, the differences are primarily based on the calligraphy and characters in the coin.
     
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  7. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    Fascinating historical account and very interesting coin!!


    All I own is one Japanese Yen.... or perhaps two.......nothing as yet from China.
     
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  8. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    I just realized I spelled Li Zicheng's name wrong twice. Darn these auto correct functions. :arghh:
     
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  9. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Chinese coins need to appreciate the history and calligraphy behind them for the 2000 Years of history since the standardization of the design (since the Qin) to at least the end of the Qing. The designs get interesting before then with the spades, knives and cowries etc as well as late Qing when the dragon dollars emerge.
     
  10. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    @Mikey Zee the Japanese Yen imported Chinese coins, locally imitated them as well as minted Chinese designs throughout most of their history as well. It was towards the Tokugawa Shogunate that the distinctive Samurai coins emerge such as the Koban-Kin, Oban, ginban, square coins and other interesting provincial issues
     
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  11. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    [​IMG]

    Qin Shi Huang
    AE Cash ban liang (ca. BCE 221-206)
    34 mm x 8.56 grams
    (半两) Primitive Line script
    First official round coin with square hole. First issued under Qin Shi Huang. First emperor of China.

    Qin Shi Huang unified China k=in 221 BCE and established the Qin Dynasty. (Hence the derivative of the name "China" used in the West, today as Zhongguo in Pudanghua - Chinese). He abolished all prior styles of money used in China Warring States, and made legal coinage to be a round coin with a square hole in the middle. It would weigh a half tael or ban liang (半两). They were cast through the end of the Qin Dynasty and into the Western Han Dynasty.

    I recently acquired from a good friend of mine on CT.

    I have about 12 others, but they are from the 1700-1800's, some Japanese, and I do not have them attributed... None of them even approach being this ancient...
     
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  12. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

  13. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    o_O

    ummm Loong, is that a prairie dog on the obverse?
     
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  14. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Yes @stevex6 You have GOT to go get that ANIMAL !!! :D
     
  15. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    And, mine has ET with a trident on the other side of the square! :D
     
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  16. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    It looks a bit like Wall-e ...

    [​IMG]


    wall-e2.jpg
     
  17. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Nice coin @Alegandron. It was large the First Emperor who unified and standardised the cultural, linguistic and governmental legacy that lasted for so long. The Ban Liang was the defacto Currency of the Qin state of which the First Emperor Shi Huangdi (personal name Ying Zheng 赢正) inherited and set as the standard currency upon uniting the country. The Ban Liang of the Warring States are heavier and larger, came to a slightly smaller standard during the Qin and was even used during the early Han Dynasty (although at debased and much smaller sizes) before being replaced with the significant Wu Zhu 五铢 standard.

    Your's is definitely at least Qin Dynasty or possibly earlier during the Warring States Period due to its size. Unfortunately I do not have enough Ban Liang research to make a qualified assessment.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2015
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  18. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    YEAH!!! But Wall-E kinda was like a robotized ET! :)
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
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  19. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    IMG_3329-1.jpg IMG_1562.JPG Here's mine. .
     
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  20. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Ban Liangs are all about size. The larger the earlier and scarcer piece. 34 is a pretty good size. I have some up to 44mm but was lucky I got them from a hoard 15 years ago. Such large ones are very scarce today unless you get the ones cast a month ago. :( The smaller ones, 25mm or so, are all Western Han and much more common. Frank Robinson used to have them in VF for around $1 a piece. He still might. I believe Thierry wrote the definitive book on them.
     
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  21. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    @Loong Siew thank you for the update! I really love this piece as I really enjoy Chinese History... I am not as versed in Chinese History as I am in Western Civilizations, but I have had the opportunity to have seen many ancient sites in China. Including the tomb of Wu Di in Guangzhou and Kong Qiu 孔夫子 (Confucius to the West) birth house in Qufu, Shandong as well as his palace where he administered. Wow, fascinating places to see!!!
     
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