I have become aware of a Miliaresion of mine that maybe could be a fourree. – I won it in biding from a well-knowing dealer for some months ago. It was not declared as fouree however. I want some opinions from those here who have been in numismatic stuff for a long time. Does it appear to you to be a fourree? Basil II with Constantine VIII, sear 1810, weight: 1,8g. Size:23mm: In addition I have also a John Tzimiskes, in which I bought from the same day and from the same dealer. – It is Sear 1792, weight and size are 1,9g and 21mm:
i don't know herbert, i see what you mean though. some of those spots looks bronze, but i can't tell...don't know much about these.
Sorry, I was only referring to the Basil II. It appears there may be bronze showing through the lettering on the reverse. But I mus reiterate, I am no expert on these (not sure I'm an expert at all).
Miliaresions are an area of LRS that I hope to soon get into. I am eyeing a few nice ones from the Heraclian Dynasty. I am seeing a brown spot on the first coin.( Fouree??) Coin 2 just looks heavily corroded (perhaps Horn silver?) Fouree's do exist for these coins but they are very rare, much like legitimate Eastern Roman silver coins.
My example of the Basil II and Constantine VIII fourree weighs 2.8g and has no remaining silver color. I wonder if the original silvering was silver at all or just another white metal. At 1.8g, I'd suspect yours was also. The only way I see to sell is to make a scratch on the edge and see if it is silver or red/brown below. I bought my coin from the estate of a metallurgist who had a wonderful collection of coins he selected for their interesting fabrics. The seller on behalf of his estate though his Greeks were really valuable and sent them off to a high end auction. I was able to get a few of his junkier Roman period coins of which this was one. I wonder what ever happened to the good stuff.
I have just scratched the edge of both the John and the Basil II. I cannot really distinguish silver from metal, but the miliaresion of John has something white/metal/silver look, while Basil II has something orange element. Giving the certain spots on my Basil II, and the fact that I can observe something orange element at the edge on my Basil II, is this an overwhelming evidence that the Basill II is definitely a fouree?
Definitely is too strong a word. To be fourree you need a base interior and a precious exterior. The Basil could be a base metal fake with no silvering and still be red inside. The John seems to be more likely not fourree. If you wish to go farther, you need a professional. If you wish to take this further, the coin needs to be examined by a metallurgist with equipment to assay exterior and interior (x-ray, core drilled or destructively). The photo appears to have a considerable layer of something on the surface (grease, patina, paint - from photos you are not going to have 'definitely') that could be removed ruining any numismatic value of the item. If the coin were mine, I would not destroy it to find more than you have now. The reference on fourrees: Campbell, William, Greek and Roman Plated Coins Numismatic Notes and Monographs No. 57, American Numismatic Society, 1933 is now free online: http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000104992965;view=1up;seq=7 It is a fascinating book full of images showing what has to be done to know 'definitely' what is beneath the surface of a coin. In short, the coin is embedded in a block and sawed in half with the surface polished and examined under a microscope. I love this book and the information I gained from it but I will not be examining my coins this way.
I mess with the words because I am new. Perhaps I should have said “fake” instead of “fouree”. What I meant was that giving the spots on certain places on my Basil II, and the fact that I can observe some orange element after scratching the edge, it got to be a fake 100%. – It is definitely not silver. I am surprised that I have purchased a fake. I won that coin in ebay from a certain well-knowing dealer who has been praised here. – It was not declared as fake, although it was giving a wrong Sear number. I saw that other miliaresions of Basill II was sold for around 120-220Euro at other auctions. I did note that that coin was extremely ugly when comparing to others, but I thought that it was corrosion. - I don’t remember how much exactly I did bid in the last seconds but I won it for 37Euro. – So I thought I have won a corroded silver coin of Basill II. I think I still want to keep it, but I still want an answer from the dealer.
Hello again Can I ask for opinions from those here who have been into numismatic stuff for many years or have some basic understanding of metals? The seller says that he is convinced that they are originals, and that these coins are made from extremely bad silver so if they come from aggressive soil, there will be many mineral reactions. Can I ask for your opinions? - I trust the dealer, i just want to hear from other.
