Dishonest Seller

In this case I know the seller didn't want to go through eBay but wanted to refund off the record so he wouldn't lose his selling privilege . Does that sound ethical , it doesn't to me but I never sold anything on eBay and don't really know all their policies for sellers .

 

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Back when I was getting into coins (10 years ago or so) I bought a raw 1911 $2 1/2 Indian, that when I received it, turned out to be a weak D. I brought it to my local dealer, who told me flat out it was fake. I asked why he thought so, and he said the mint mark was in the wrong spot. He showed me a small mark on the obverse (that he thought was the weak d), that was in fact not the mint mark. I turned the coin over, showed him where it was, and he just kinda sat there. I later graded it XF45 with PCGS using another dealer, and have never been back to that first "dealer". To take a random person's word on your coin is hard to do. I would trust ngc and pcgs though, as I feel I know the coins I sell well enough to make the call for genuine or not.

 

Need to emphasize the seller, unlike the dealers here, has no real knowledge about his product. He sells these as an item alongside other items such as watches.

 

This makes no sense. What DOES make sense is the seller just asking the buyer to ship it back, issue the refund via ebay, but doing that WITHOUT the buyer opening a claim. That is completely normal for a seller to want, as any claim hurts them.

 

You can't know more than one subject matter? I am not saying it is not a fake, but unless you got proof of it, why should he believe you.

 

You are saying this in terms of the seller knowing his product. He has told me that he does not know medals. There is a big difference between a seller who knows what he is selling and someone who knows nothing.

 

Maybe I misunderstood Lea . But the fact remains that though the majority of sellers on eBay are honest there are quite a few who are not . If asking that a seller knows what he is selling is wrong then there's something wrong with the system . This medal is off in weight and type of metal . So is he right in relisting it ?

 

"How can two medals have verdi gris at the sme spot without one or both being fake."


Verdigris is not transmitted, molded, or 'stamped' into the metal as it is a chemical reaction that occurs after the production whether it is from a mold or die. However the mold or die could have a microscopic surface irregularity that might cause verdigris to develop easier in the same position of several examples, especially if they were stored together, but that is a far possibility. So both could be good, both fakes, or one of each based on verdigris.

On the basis of weight and metal, I would hope the coin historians would know if patterns were made before production of different weights and metals of the same medal.I would suspect so.

 

You certainly know I cannot disagree and have said many times that once a person puts on their dealer/seller hat, they take all the responsibilities that come with it and can no longer rightfully take the leeway afforded to collectors or those selling to an actual dealer. As I said earlier, a little research may be in order after such a claim and this certainly can include submission if necessary and/or reasonable. However, the fact that he may not have researched or considered submitting and simply relisted does NOT make him "dishonest", which implies an intent to deceive, but only ill informed (if this is, in fact, a fake). This certainly does not excuse it, but the punishment (publicly being raked over the coals) should fit the crime, and the "dishonest" accusation, at least with the evidence thus far provided, does not.

 

Relisting is not the problem. Relisting without at least saying that the medal could be a copy is wrong. He relisted at about the same price I paid and did not say anything about the questionable authenticity. This is dishonest. Turns out that EBay has changed policies. They do not have cases anymore. They do have returns without saying anything more than you no longer need the item. This protects the buyer but does not ding the seller. This is the way I returned this medal. Thought the seller had made an honest mistake and would not do what he did. I told him that even if it is a copy, he cold still probably get anout $100 for it.

 

Here's 3 areas on that medal that say it's a casted fake. Above the date around the 1, a 1/4 of an inch up there's a hole in the tower leg, air hole? Yes, that's what I think also there's air bubbles in three other areas, under the LZ129 Hindenburg and on the obverse above Ernst Lehmann's left shoulder. Super rare medal and by the weight Lea checked that sucker's a fake. Yes, the guy can certainly relist and not pay attention to the buyer who said it was a fake but that's not always good for business. He should just have it graded, I bet if he sees this thread he will believe more, that it's a fake.

 

This seller probably did not know how to do the research. I did the research myself and came to the conclusion that due to the weight and the bronze layered on top of the white medal. It is likely a fake. I told the sellers the reasons. If he had asked me where I got the information, I would have told him.

 

I think most of us have benefited from sellers who didn't do their homework and I will not encourage them to do so.

How long will it take for someone to call me dishonest for saying this?

 

That is not dishonest. I also have found some medals that are worth a lot but were listed much lower. The difference here is a seller who was given the reasons why it is a copy but did not check it out. Just relisted it.

 

I wasn't commenting on your specific example. I just wanted to say that I don't want to encourage ALL sellers to educate themselves. My second comment is about the sometimes excessively moral members who think you should educate ignorant sellers and pay more than their asking price. (And if you don't, then you're a thief)

 

The one problem is that this medal was made in Germany during WW2. Any records made were probably lost.

 

Sounds to me like you really don't care that people may be getting burned on ebay . And to tell the truth I really don't care what you think .

 

Care enough to quote him though

 

It's not my job to protect people from making poor decisions. Crooks always find a way to scam and ignorant people usually find a way to be separated from their money. Yours is the flaw born from emotion based thinking. You could spend 24 hours a day policing bad people and never win - which is why we have state and local police, FBI, Secret Service, Interpol, etc and there are still countless scams being carried out.

 

Lea

You are amazing with these medals.
Congrats on not getting stuck with a fake