Style, Ladies and Germs ====> STYLE

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by John Anthony, Aug 18, 2015.

  1. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    I love finding Roman coins that evince a master's hand - an engraver who could take common themes and imbue them with uncommon detail and passion. Here's an ant of Valerian I with a bust so finely and realistically chiseled, it looks like the long-gone emperor could begin speaking at any moment.

    And the reverse is no yeoman's rendition of a waif - she's appropriately capacious, with rich, flowing robes and a burgeoning cornucopia. Sure, some of the letters are off-flan, but you don't dump a girl just because she's missing a few teeth. :p

    (Actually, she takes up so much of the flan, she had to push the inscription out of the way.)

    valerian felicitas.JPG
     
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  3. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Sure about that, could cause some painful snag issues...
    [​IMG]

    Great bust image though.

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Poor Valerian I. Depending on who you read, upon capture by Shapur I, Valerian was:

    A. Killed by Shapur; stuffed with straw and kept as a trophy.
    B. Forced to perform degrading services, such as being his Shapur's footstool
    C. Forced into slavery until he died
    D. Killed by Shapur by being forced to drink molten gold (Game of Thrones, anyone?)
     
  5. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    There's also E. - that he was Shapur's well-treated guest to the end of his days, for those of you who prefer a happy ending.
     
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  6. Magnus Maximus

    Magnus Maximus Dulce et Decorum est....

    RIP Emperor Valerian!:arghh::depressed::dead::inpain::sorry::(:oops:

    Nice coin JA! I love that obverse portrait.
     
  7. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    There are two kinds of collectors - those who agree with you and those who don't know what you are talking about. Most people understand grading to the point that they like EF coins better than VG ones but not everyone recognizes that there are some dies that are more artistic than others of the same date and type. Your Valerian is better looking than most Valerians. Many people will tell you that Greek coins are more 'artistic' than Roman and early Roman is better than late Roman and everything beats Byzantine. That is not what we are seeing here. In any period and at any place some dies just came out better than others. Some of us show a preference for these better style coins and some would rather just have a higher grade from poorly engraved dies for the same money. This is not a matter of condition but of style.

    Below are a few coins I consider better than their peer group in terms of style. There is room for some differences in opinion on this. Post below coins you believe are more stylistic than the average for their type.
    Caracalla (my favorite Severan die):
    rs6580b00126alg.jpg

    Diocletian
    rx3345bb2683.jpg

    Crispus:
    rx5740b02121lg.JPG

    Michael VII is OK here but I really like the Christ portrait with wavy hair:
    rz0527fd2822.jpg

    Greek is usually good so they have to be really good to make the list. This is a 10mm Syracuse hemilitron. It would have to be better were it a tetradrachm.
    g00410bb2035.jpg
     
  8. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Not in West Virginia anyway. And more than likely she's related to ya.

    Nice coin. You are correct about that portrait. Very well done.
     
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  9. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I believe these are more stylistic than the average for their type:
    Alexander III
    Alexander III.jpg

    AMISOS, PONTOS
    AMISOS PONTOS.jpg

    JULIUS CAESAR
    Julius Caesar 1a.jpg

    AGRIPPA
    Agrippa 2.jpg
     
  10. Aidan_()

    Aidan_() Numismatic Contributor

    Lol, I thought Steve took JA's account. :D j/k
    Tis' a nice piece JA, even with the missing teeth:
    [​IMG]
     
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  11. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    It was a rather Steve-ish title, so I had to include the arrow.
     
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  12. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    All we know for sure is Shapur did something quite creative to Valerian.

    Love posting this...sssSSSHHAPUR..I
    ShapurIreshoot_opt.jpg

    ....and Valerian I....this reverse is such a lie...

    ValerianIAnt_opt.jpg
     
  13. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    That makes me right no matter what. I like the way you think!

    Super coins everyone, showing some great style. I collected this follis of Constantine specifically for the imperious and regal bust, but the engraver also spent some work giving the captives unusual detail and expression, and made the banner large enough to not crowd the commemoration VOT XX.

    con2cap.jpg
     
  14. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    I have a few coins of indisputably fine style (Syracuse tetradrachm, for instance) but there are some which are far less assuming yet very artistic, at least to me.

    [​IMG]
    AE tetras of Syracuse, Sicily, ~390 BCE. Sure, it's just a tiny bronze coin with a funky patina, but the facing portrait is very nicely rendered.

    [​IMG]
    Sestertius of Nero. The reverse details are amazing. The figures are well-proportioned and there is even a sense of added dimensionality due to the lower relief of the ship's prow. Nero issued a plethora of interesting and artistic coins. This particular type is usually very nicely rendered, although not all dies are as artistic.

    Even usually lowly Roman Egyptian tetradrachms occasionally have artistic engraving. Claudius II's engravers seemed more talented than others of that time and place:

    with Tyche reverse:
    [​IMG]

    with eagle reverse:
    [​IMG]

    ...

    I'm going to steal a picture from @AncientJoe to illustrate the profound artistic difference which sometimes occurs for a given type. His Agathokles tetradrachm, one of my favorites of his extraordinary collection, is most often found with a rather hideous portrait of Kore. In the case of this particular tetradrachm, artistic dies are the exception rather than the rule.

    AJ's:
    [​IMG]

    The "typical" version :eek::
    [​IMG]
    (image from CNG's archives)
     
  15. Ancientnoob

    Ancientnoob Money Changer

    I love how all these fine coins are monogramed AN.
     
  16. David Atherton

    David Atherton Flavian Fanatic

    Probably one of more stylish portraits of Titus as Caesar, from the Rome mint no less. Rome really could be hit and miss at the time.

    V529a.jpg
    A unique coin not listed in RIC. Assigned catalogue number 529A in the Addenda by Ian Carradice.
     
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  17. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus

    I am also going to show my Agrippa. I really like the style of the portrait.
    Agrippa combined.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2015
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  18. Valentinian

    Valentinian Well-Known Member

    Maximian, co-ruler with Diocletian and member of the first tetrarchy, is common and the GENIO POPVLI ROMANI reverse is very common, but I think this portrait is superb, not in grade but in style (and, in addition, it is from London):
    MaximianLondonO.jpg
    MaximianGPRLondonR.jpg
     
  19. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    LOL, AWESOME thread everyone! I have laughing my Roman As off!!! :D
     
  20. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Gorgeous ant, John...Valerian just looks REAL...in a spooky way! I guess you have the Ghost of V there...
     
  21. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    great stylish coins everyone!

    just to be different i'll post this. lines and text, but but i does have style i think.


    [​IMG]
     
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