Counter-stamped Large Cent (?) found in Schoharie Creek

Hello all, my name is Erik and I am an Upstate New York resident, formerly growing up in Middleburgh (Schoharie Valley).

After a visit to the creek with my metal detector, I found this, what appears to be a Large Cent, from 185* with a counter-stamp upon both front and back faces of the coin. It cleaned up great, with exception of the slight bend mark which has faded out the mid section of the coin, obscuring 3/4 of the date.

I have never found one before and am not likely to find one again after seeing the various posts here and in other forums. The markings seem to say (at least from what my untrained eyes see) "P.H.LINK" Could this be something oriented with a name? Possibly a business? And what would it be doing in the creek, under sediment and loose rock/stone?

(images of coin

Any information on what the stamp could be would of course be amazing, but any information is relished by myself as I am hungry for knowledge.

I am glad to be here as a member of the forum and I hope to keep posting my finds, so long as they keep coming! =)

All the best,

Erik "The Krow" Van Dyke

 

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Nice find Eric and welcome to the forum.

@BRandM knows a lot about these counter stamped coins. Hopefully he'll show up here in a moment or two.......

 

Thanks very much Green18, so happy I found the forum!
I have seen the BRandM name popping up quite a bit here, and am excited at the chance to have someone possibly help to unravel this mystery

Looking forward to posting more in the future

 

Nice find! I like it, OP. I have toyed with getting into metal detecting. You never know what you could find..

 

Thanks William, it was a hot day and the water was low. There it was, just laying under some creek fodder. I don't get out to do it as often as I would like, but I have found a few silver pieces and one or two European coins over the years.

Waiting on that Diamond ring! haha

 

Great find! I have used detectors, and I could now have probably the best collection of these:

 

I used a metal detector for many years, but can no longer get out -- yes, it's FUN.

Noticed one or two things about this coin; it takes a tremendous amount of force to bend one, like this coin apparently was. Also, in the 1850s, only one or two years have the "1" beyond the tip of the bust; see the Redbook photos of the 1855 and the 1857, for instance, where the tip of the bust is well to the left of the "1."

The "8" appears leaning backward toward the "1," and I'm tempted to think it's a slanting "5" although not sure.

And yet, I don't think it's a counterfeit, either.

 

Derkerlegand, it is soooo hard to find an album for those.

 

Hi Doug5353, and thank you for your reply!

I never thought of the pressure it would take to bend or manipulate the coin...

It is worn VERY smooth around the date and throughout the surface area where the "Bend"is.

Poses a question or two: Could it have been held poorly when stamped? Possibly some sort of erosion from the creek after what could be 100 years (or more) in the creek bed? Maybe a counterfeit job gone awry and tossed to the side over a bridge or crossing?

Hmmmm...

I didn't give the counterfeit option a thought initially, but now that you mention how much pressure that seam would have required, it is even more of a mystery!

Thank you again for the information Doug!

-Erik

 

Here is a little bit I stumbled upon after taking your advice and researching a bit of the information you provided Doug5353.

Seems that the 1839-1857 ranged coins, or the final run for the coin itself, the "1" is clearly beyond the bust. I also noticed, the "1" and the "8" are in a nice straight path and appear to be the same on the coin I found, though very worn. The "5" shows a similar spacing as well from the "8" and is also quite close to the lower portion of the bust, which seems to coincide with a prime example of the coin.



Once again I really appreciate the information, it has sent me on a quest to discover the originator of this coins counterstamp!

-Erik

 

That's a nice find, Krow. Although "P.H. Link isn't listed in the references, there are four other people with that surname who are documented counterstampers. They are E.M., H.A., M., and Joseph Link. Some may be related to P.H. which would be neat if you could connect them. The identities of the four haven't been discovered as of yet.

The flat / smooth spots on the coin and the bend are a result of the counterstamp being applied with a heavy hammer blow. Even hefty coins like large cents are quite often bent from the strike, but less so if the strike is lighter. You can see by the depth of the letters that the maker of this piece had a heavy hand. You have to remember that a 2 or 3 pound sledge was likely used to apply the stamp, so it can do some serious damage to the coin.Yours was done with individual letter punches, and not a prepared punch. The uneven spacing of the letters is the giveaway.

I can do a bit of checking around for you to see if I can identify P.H. Link. It's a long shot, but who knows. I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

Bruce

 

Cousin Bruce is awesome.........

 

Greetings Bruce,

I am so grateful for your expertise and knowledge!! That is some amazing information. My mind is spinning with possibilities...

I knew something looked funny with the stamp on the one side, as it was definitely spaced out compared to the opposite side. And the bending from the hammer strike, brilliant. I never would have guessed that it could bend it so greatly! I am guessing this would explain why the date itself seems a bit separated? From the bend.

I cannot thank you enough Bruce, for this knowledge bomb. I am stoked it is not a counterfeit, but in fact, could be connected to a much larger story!

Any and all information you could muster up would be amazing. Is there somewhere I could possibly research the names you mentioned as known counter stampers, Such as an online resource perhaps? I am determined to solve this mystery.

Thank you so much again for taking the time and offering your expertise.

Krow

 

He truly is! What a serious knowledge bomb he dropped on me. I love this!

 

Yep, Bruce is the man in these parts for all things counter stamped. He's also very sharp with merchant tokens. He also provides great write ups for his coins!

 

I like to help when I can, Krow. I've been researching and collecting these things longer than I care to remember. It's a passion of mine. The history is what attracts me. I get a great deal of satisfaction out of identifying the issuers of these historic pieces, or deciphering phrases or symbols people have seen fit to record on a coin or token. There are literally tens of thousands of issues known, and many times that that remain unrecorded.

When researching a stamp with initials and surname only, an attribution is very difficult. You have nothing more to go on other than the name. While not a common surname, Link is far from being rare. I would hazard a guess that if you looked hard enough you would come across dozens of P.H. Links in historical records. It's happened to me many times in the past. I recall once trying to trace a man named William Long. Amazingly, I got over 40,000 hits during my investigation. It's one of the few times I gave up looking for an issuer.

Getting back to your coin. I did a general internet search for "P.H. Link and came up with very little. I checked patent records, cemetery listings, etc., but got nowhere. I decided to work with the first initial, "P". The most likely name starting with a "P" in my estimation would be Philip or Paul. I found two Philip H. Links on the internet, but they were too late historically to be viable candidates. I would estimate that your stamp was struck in the late 1850s, but not much later. Large Cents didn't circulate much after about 1860.

I'm guessing Link struck the coin as a personal piece. It's a bit sloppy to be a merchant token or to advertise a business. He probably carried it with him for a time. It's anybody's guess how it got in the water. Maybe an irate girl friend or wife. You know how vindictive women can be. lol

The best sources to investigate are city directories, Federal Census records, and the pay site Ancestry.com. Ancestry is very expensive, but you can sign up for a monthly membership if you want to get serious about searching for Link. I'll keep looking, Krow, and let you know if I find any possibilities. The hunt continues! Good luck.

Bruce

 

I wish my wife thought so, Ken.

Bruce

 

Thanks, Jack. I love you write-ups too. Very informative and interesting. You've taught me a few things about military tokens for sure.

Bruce

 

Great thread, thanks to the OP and Bruce.

 

The real "Link," whoever he is, went to a lot of trouble to make these counterstamps intended to circulate within 10 miles of his store or business, never dreaming that 150+ years later, collectors would puzzle and obsess over who he was and where he was...fame is fleeting.