Coin production and die alignment lines

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by AncientJoe, Aug 8, 2015.

  1. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]

    Because of the inherent value of coins, minting processes have historically been tightly controlled and precise, dictated by the ruling country and kept under close oversight. Almost all ancient coins were struck by hand, and the process remained consistent until the sixteenth century when machinery was invented to partially automate the process.

    The dies were generally engraved in reverse, to allow metal to flow into them and produce a design with relief. A blank flan was heated and placed between an upper and lower die and a hammer was used to strike the upper die, imprinting the design into the metal.

    This coin retains an interesting attribute of the engraving process which is rarely seen. The circle surrounding Nike on the reverse is a “guide line”, used to properly align the design elements. Its presence indicates a very early die state, making this one of the first coins struck with unworn dies.

    There are also two additional subsidiary lines near the center of the reverse which aided further precision. It’s not known why the guide lines were not removed after finishing the die but these circular artifacts give significant insight into the production of coin dies. They allowed the engraver to ensure that they aesthetically and accurately fit the design on the coin. As shown on this coin, Nike and all of her attributes perfectly fit within the circle, slightly touching its perimeter.


    KINGS of MACEDON. Philip III Arrhidaios. 323-317 BC. AV Stater (18mm, 8.62 g, 12h). In the name and types of Alexander III. Abydos mint. Helmeted head of Athena right / Nike standing left, holding wreath and stylis; grain ear in left field, monogram below left wing. Price 1519. Perfectly centered, lovely style. Nearly uncirculated.

    Post your coins with interesting engraving/minting attributes
     
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  3. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I don't know how you do it AJ, but each subsequent coin seems to be better than the one before. This is a real work of art, both sides. Congratulations.
     
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  4. red_spork

    red_spork Triumvir monetalis

    Absolutely amazing and beautiful coin as always, AJ!

    Here is one that I bought largely because it shows a bit about the minting process of Byzantine scyphate coins(and due to it being really nice quality for the price). The shape of this coin made it very hard to light without getting hotspots, but you can still see in the middle of the obverse that the coin was struck twice. This is because with these scyphate(cup-shaped) coins, to raise the full design required striking twice, once from each side, and so you get a sort of double-vision effect near the center on many of these types.

    combined.jpg

    Byzantine. Isaac II "Angelus". A.D. 1185-1195. Billon Aspron Trachy. Constantinople mint. Obverse: The Virgin enthroned facing, nimbate and wearing pallium and maphorium; She holds before Her nimbate head of the infant Christ facing; on either side of nimbus, MP - OV. Reverse: Isaac standing facing, wearing crown, divitision, loros and sagion; he holds cruciform sceptre and akakia, and is crowned by manus Dei. Sear 2003.
     
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  5. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    Very interesting. If they used guide lines like that, why do we see so many coins where significant parts of the design are off the flan?

    For that matter, wouldn't they be able to tell by the relative size of the die and the flan whether the whole design would fit or not?
     
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  6. Pishpash

    Pishpash Well-Known Member

    I have always assumed that they would take more care striking gold coins. Much later on, I imagine a frenzy of activity striking a gazzillion fallen horsemen.
     
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  7. RaceBannon

    RaceBannon Member

    Another beautiful coin AJ. And a worthy topic of discussion. I've attached a Marcus Aurelius Sestertius of mine with the dual centering marks on the reverse. I know there is still some debate around the exact method and purpose for the use of centering dots on ancient Roman coinage. So I've attached some links for those who are interested.

    http://www.constantinethegreatcoins.com/dots/

    http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/pit.html


    Marcus Aurelius;180AD
    AE Sestertius; 30mm/26.5g
    OBV: DIVVS M ANTONINVS PIVS; Bare head right
    REV; CONSECRATIO, S C in exergue; Aurelius seated on eagle flying right, left leg wrapped around eagle's right wing, raising right hand & cradling sceptre in left arm. Struck by Commodus after his death. (RIC 660, Sear 5984, Cohen 94)

    Marcus Aurelius Obv.JPG Marcus Aurelius Rev.JPG
     
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  8. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Wow AJ, another fantastic coin ... and yet another goldie (gorgeous)

    I love the serpent on her helmet (usually Athena has a gryphon on her headgear, yes?)

    ... very cool addition (congrats once again)


    :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2015
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  9. maridvnvm

    maridvnvm Well-Known Member

    I don't think those two holes are centering marks. They must have been added post production to allow mounting on a brooch perhaps.
     
  10. RaceBannon

    RaceBannon Member

    That's why I post on this forum. I learn something every time I do. Thanks Martin.
     
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  11. Mikey Zee

    Mikey Zee Delenda Est Carthago

    Great posts all!!

    AJ, your coins and info are always beyond superlative!!!
     
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  12. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    i picked up a couple of byzantine coins of like the one RS posted because it shows a pretty clear difference in the striking process (i think anyway).

    sorry for picture quality..

    [​IMG]

    the above coin was struck one time, note it has a very solid image of a young christ. but there is almost nothing in the fields.


    [​IMG]


    this coin was struck twice, they would "rock it" a bit to get a solid slightly off center strike which would show the details in the fields much better, but make the center looks strange...instead of a double head this one is a cyclops!
     
  13. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Truly an amazing coin.
     
  14. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    It's a stunning coin! I've only seen the slightest traces of guide lines on Alexandrian-era staters, and only rarely, so your example is indeed something special. Here's one which shows a bit remaining on the reverse, from 6 to 9...

    stater1.jpg

    I agree that the OP coin demonstrates an early die state, as the guide lines would have become softer after some use, but it's also possible the engraver just made them a little too deep.
     
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  15. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Hey, that example (immediately above) shows a griffin on Athena's helmet ... interesting (maybe I'll collect the whole set?)

    ;)
     
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  16. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    Go for it! I'll cheer you on from the sidelines.
     
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  17. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Aminals...mmm...yummy; GOLD Aminals...mmm...crispy critters
     
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  18. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    I am on the sidelines, ready to get into the Gold game... watching and learning. Others have convinced me... The examples above are incredible... hence my keen interest in Gold and Electrum. That is moving into the level of the True Hobby of Kings...
     
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  19. Pishpash

    Pishpash Well-Known Member

    I'm afraid I am going to have to stick to the Hobby of Peasants :(
     
  20. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Mmmm...Peasants oops..Pheasants yummy...
     
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  21. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Me scared a bit too... I've got lotsa learning yet, and to gain some confidence. But these examples are great stuff!
     
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