Why did England choose not to use the Euro?

I got an email today asking why England chose not to embrace the Euro with many of the other European nations. As I am not familiar with the reasons, I figured that I would ask here. So if anyone knows why, please share the reasons with me.

 

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Cos a significant amount of the general populace want to keep the pound, despite the peddle pushing by the Blarite government we haven't moved yet but he's trying to sign us up.

Personally i'll vote for anyone that says they're keeping the pound.

 

One of the reasons as to why `England' isn't part of euroland comes is down to it's lacking the right to issue purely English coinage. Since the Act of Union in 1707 England (to put it simply) has not had the legal authority to issue its own coinage.

The coinage issued and used the length and breadth of the land is issued for The United Kingdom, of which England is one part, the other parts being made up of Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales. The rights of all these countries to issue counage is subsumed into the coinage of the UK which is the only official coinage of the land.

The political reasons as to why the United Kingdom is not part of euroland comes down to the fact that the majority of Brits don't want anything to do with it (rightly or wrongly).

 

Thanks so much for the answers. I have learned yet another interesting fact today

 

If I was British I would not want to have my political and economical future tied into Germany or France as well. As an American I am glad that they are keeping the pound for it is a great currency in itself for collecting, currency trading, and historical value.

 

Hopefully you will advise your enquirer that `England' is ony one part of the UK and to call everyone in the UK `english' is definitely not an advisable activity. This piece of information may indeed prove vital to their survival if they were ever to find themselves in Glasgow or Edinburgh...trust me on this) ;-)

Ian

 

Indeed trust him on that...!

 

Nationalism is the reason. The many and richly varied peoples who are forced to live on that oversized aircraft carrier feel even less like having much to do with the continent than they do with each other.

Shakespeare said it best:
This royal throne of kings, this sceptered isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall,
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this United Kingdom, consisting of Great Britain, which comprises England, Wales, and Scotland, to which has been added Northern Ireland!

(Makes your blood run hot, doesn't it, though?)
Second best is the lyric of this oratorio:

When the United Kingdom first at Heav'n's command
Arose from out the azure main;
This was the charter of the land,
And guardian angels sang this strain;

Rule, the United Kingdom! the United Kingdom, rule the waves:
the United Kingdomers never will be slaves.

The nations not so blest as thee,
Shall in their turns to tyrants fall;
While thou shalt flourish great and free,
The dread and envy of them all.

Still more majestic shalt thou rise,
More dreadful from each foreign stroke;
As the loud blast that tears the skies,
Serves but to root thy native oak.

Thee haughty tyrants ne'er shall tame,
All their attempts to bend thee down
Will but arouse thy generous flame;
But work their woe, and thy renown.

To thee belongs the rural reign;
They cities shall with commerce shine;
All thine shall be the subject main,
And every shore it circles thine.

The Muses, still with freedom found,
Shall to thy happy coast repair;
Blest Isle! With matchless beauty crowned,
And manly hearts to guide the fair.

Rule, the United Kingdom! the United Kingdom, rule the waves:
the United Kingdomers never will be slaves.

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I guess the real question is, "What is in joining the EU for the UK?" Wine and cheese and beer and olives can bear a lot of import duties before the UKers will give up.

 

Most every country that embraced the euro had something to gain, either politically or monetarily. Germany loves the EU because it helps it escape its past history with the cloak of legitimacy provided by the EU. France loves the EU because it gives it more power and influence in Europe – power and influence that it THINKS it should have but really hasn’t had since the days of Napoleon. Italy was glad to get rid of the worthless Lire, and other nations were happy to latch onto other, stronger economies.

As for the UK, they have nothing to gain but lots to lose. They have the strongest currency in Europe, with plenty of history behind it. I have even heard talk that they might consider pulling out of the EU (the political part of it, anyway).

Now…with all the “experts” here on England vs. the UK, how about a definitive explanation of “Great Britain”?

P.S. – If anyone wants to know my prediction, I think the EU and the euro as we know them today will eventually collapse. The EU government is not nearly as representative or accountable as any decent democracy, and the idea that this group of countries can be forced into a common foreign policy, etc. is a fantasy. Besides, many of these countries were at war with each other twice in the past century.

 

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Oh no he didn't. Shakespeare was ENGLISH and spoke only FOR the ENGLISH. His plays were very political in nature. He absolutely pilloried Macbeth in his play of that name. The only thing he didn't have poor old Macbeth doing was roasting children for supper.

If you must go off jousting, best that we sort out the basics beforehand.

England is a country. If you want to speak about England, then recognise that you are NOT speaking about the United Kingdom.

Do not mix things `English' as being the same as things `UK'. They are not. Shakespeare falls into the category of `things English' (look at when he was born etc in relation to the Act of Union)

The United Kingdom is a nation state comprising of England, Scotland Wales and Northern Ireland that came into being during the reign of Queen Anne (ie post `Shakespeare'). If you are speaking about the United Kingdom, you are NOT speaking about ENGLAND on it's own, nor scotland on it's own etc etc/.

Now then....what is so difficult to understand about that I ask?

When I watch `The Simpsons' am I to take it that they are totally representative of middle class Americans?

Is the heart and soul of America truly Texas as most John Wayne films (and Dubbyah) would have us all believe?

Are all Americans `rednecks' as portrayed in that wonderfull forgettable program called `The Hill'?

Many would answer the question "What is there for the UK in joining the EU ?" with "the future" (with or without olives).

 

Well now...I can't be a speakin' fur none of theze expirt's (sorry ""experts") y'all bin mentioning, but I kin read what it be a sayin' on this ole coin that just so happins to be a sittin' right here before mah very eyze!

It's a crown of Charles II dated 1676 on which the legend reads MAG .BR. FRA. ET. HIB. REX.

Roughly translated (and you must be excuzin mah pore latin n'all) it means King of Great Britain , France and Ireland.

A definishun fur Great Britain ? It's a bein' the name of the island that extends from Lands End in the South of England all the way to John o' Groats in the far North of Scotland.

It shore don't include Ireland or any part of it because that is the name of an entirely different island. It shorely don't include France neither cos that's l'autre cote du Manche as des peuples Francaise would say (the other side of the `English' channel).

Maybe some reel expirt will be a' tellin y'all sumthin' diffrint. Until such tymes however, I trust that this clarifies as to `Great Britain' and why the coinage of the UK is sometimes referred to as that of Great Britain AND Northern Ireland.

 

I recall people in the US sniggering to themselves when the euro traded at about 1 euro to $0.90 US. The boisterous comments kind of slowed down and disappeared when the euro began trading on par with the dollar.

As of 30 seconds ago, 1 euro is worth $ 1.27847. Let me see now, that looks to me like the dollar / euro has taken a pretty massive dive unless i'm reading something wrong?

The euro is not showing any signs of weakening against the $, quite the converse. It is significantly stronger against the £ too than when it first launched, so all the smoke about the £ being a stronger currency is just that ....smoke.

The problem with regards to the UK and the euro concerns matters economic (market protection) and politic (the love me, love my dog thing can only go so far. Buying into `europe' means accepting too many dogs....... )

 

What language is that that they speak up there in Scotland and Wales (not counting Welsh). Could it be ENGLISH?? I know it burns the Scots and the Sheep Lovers, but the world tends to associate the UK with England. It may not be correct, but it is no worse than anyone calling the old Soviet Union “Russia”, which I am sure happened quite frequently on both sides of the Atlantic. For that matter, how many people call the US “America”? I know some South Americans who are quite unhappy with that, since they too, are Americans.

Anyway…even I as a lowly non-Brit know that Great Britain refers to the UK in combination with those pesky little islands such as Jersey and Guernsey. I am not sure exactly which others they include (Montserrat? Pitcairn?) but, anyway, the Channel Islands help make UK into GB.

I have never said that the euro is crap as a currency (although it did cause instant inflation the day it was introduced), but I am saying that (in my opinion) the political and perhaps economic situation is not sustainable.

France will become a Muslim nation within 50 years or so, with the Netherlands soon to follow. How cohesive will the European Union be when Islamic France tries to impose Sharia law in the EU? Right now they can’t even agree on whether or not to let Turkey in, so when it comes to a real spat, I think that there will be far more that separates the members than what united them. All it would take is one big war that involved some of the nations to split the whole mess apart.

As the EU grows bigger, the differences in economics and politics will only grow larger. The EU is already having trouble as some of the countries (UK included) refuse to adopt the euro. So, as Abe Lincoln once said, a house divided against it self can not stand.

It’s just my own opinion. But…remember that Europe had a common government and even a common currency once before – under the Romans. The coins make for great collectables, but their time as a valid currency is very long gone

 

JBK has made some interesting points. Presidents Bush and then Clinton were both new world order people who believed that nationalism is dead. This is why NAFTA was passed under Clinton and the Republican Senate went along with it. The first Bush and Clinton had the view, which they spoke about publicly themselves, that North America should be one trade entity and develop into one political entity as well. The island nations of the Carribean wanted in on this idea. Europe seems to want, in time, one Europe one entity. This is great in preventing wars for everyone is tied together economically. This line of thinking would explain why the U.S. pretty much gave away our space technology to China under the Clinton administration with Republican Senate approval. The thinking being is to make the world powers more level and therefore more united and less threatening. Little did they think of the bigger picture that China is not a nation yet with the same ideals as us and in turn shared and sold that technology to North Korea and Iran.The negatives with NAFTA and the EU are one democracy is lost and two wages decrease. Example, it is against the law in the United States to use DTD on crops for public outrage when it came out that DTD causes birth defects and cancer. Under NAFTA any crops grown with DTD in Mexico has to be accepted and sold in U.S. stores. That is only a small example. So the EU is a good idea on the surface but they have a minus birth replacement and the popluation that is moving in is not buying into Western Thought. NAFTA may have been a good idea in a just and fair world but the wages in Mexico are lower and the wages in the U.S. are lower due to job loss. Bottom line, a few will rule the many either under corporate greed or Sharia law. Britain has had it's Flaws as had the United States but both nations have spread the light of Democracy around the world and should remain independent to continue to do so. Look at India and look at Europe itself with what these two great allies did at the end of WWII. Politically I am an Independent who loves what his country stands for. As for coins, I love the British Gold Sovereigns for it shows how power by one was replaced with symbols of unity for the many. As for the British people, I would like to thank you for even when you were Empire Builders you also laid the idealic and stuctural foundation for democratic nations to grow later, i.e. The United States, Canada, India....and for those who speak of the American Revolution if you look at your history the majority of British Soldiers did not want to fight their cousins and it was not a popular war on either side of the Atlantic. A needed war and I repeat a needed war to shake off the old power elite but a sad one in many ways. Now this may seem like a political post but in reality the minting of coinage is very much political as it is economics.

 

*Danger* - lengthy post. You have been warned.

 

Good post Ian!
Interesting little blurb on the USS Lexington in the Falklands too. Historical trivia is a favorite of mine. I hope we're not doomed to become just that. ;-)

 

And still we have no definition of “Great Britain” from the United Kingdomite. Or shall we just say Brit?

Anyway, I sense some latent anti-Americanism in some of your comments, so there is an ocean between us (figuratively speaking) and no reason to continue the debate there.

As for Euroland, I am smack in the middle of it – more so than you, since I spend the euro – and I hope it works for the sake of the people here, but there are troubling signs indeed. Such as a Constitution that will be adopted with no input or approval from the voters. Such as a bureaucracy in Brussels that makes mandates and rams them down the peoples’ throats without regard to what people want. Such as un-elected “leaders” who make policy for millions of Europeans.

Sounds more like a dictatorship than anything else. Add to that the fact that some of the EU nations have very specific agendas which are in their own best interests, not those of the EU at large (such as France wanting to make French the official language for EU documents).

No offense meant to any Canadians, but from the Canadians I have met, they define themselves not by what they are, but by what they aren’t – they are NOT Americans (as in USA). The EU will one day mimic this stance. The power seekers want to make it an opposing force to the US. This may or may not work, but there are plenty of nations in the EU who would have no part of such a confrontational and antagonistic posture.

Time will tell.

 

Actually if the United States wanted, we could be independent from the world trade and have a thriving economy. After all we are a relatively new nation that is still rich in timber, oil, natural gas, metal ore, farm land, fresh drinking water and the leader in technology inregards to medical, military, computer, space, etc.... And in terms of energy we already have the technology that makes oil obsolete. It is only the cost ratio that will be worked out in the next twenty years which includes retooling. The E.U and the Asian nations will never be a real threat to the American economy unless we allow it. The made in China could disappear in less then a year if we decide to change our tax and environmental code which would bring back the factories. The real threat to America is the downfall of the Europe. Europe is fast becoming a vassel to the perto dollar and is giving up it's future for the present. Maybe that doesn't matter to the open minded that one culture is being replaced with another but does the open mind realize that the culture that is replacing it is closed mind to all outside differences and would bring Europe backward with religious autocrats running the show complete with stonings, beheadings, and women being property. The world needs democratic nations so let the trade be spread over the world with strong economys for a large middle class is needed for democracys to work and democratic nations should not bend down with a smile to any brainwashing cultures.

 

I think we should go ahead and close this post before it gets out of hand...

excuse my ignorance, but I didn't even know that the UK opted out of the euro, so I have found this thread to be quite educational.