Is this an example of market grading?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Seattlite86, Jun 29, 2015.

Page 2 of 3
  1. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Well that's kinda the point. In most cases whether the marks were pre or post strike - you can't.
     
    GDJMSP, Jun 30, 2015
    #21 + Quote Reply
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    I think pre strike is pretty evident and distinguishable, but it seems like post strike adjustments would look like a quarter that you would find on the street. How do TPGs regard this?
     
    Kirkuleez, Jun 30, 2015
    #22 + Quote Reply
  4. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    The same
     
    Treashunt, Jun 30, 2015
    #23 + Quote Reply
  5. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    I've learned quite a bit about adjustment marks; thank you all for your input. I have one further question regarding the matter: did they ever do adjustment marks on coins other than silver?
     
    Seattlite86, Jun 30, 2015
    #24 + Quote Reply
  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Kirk it's my belief that there are a great many coins out there with scratches and damage that have been cleanly graded by the TPGs because they could use the adjustment marks "excuse".

    As for pre-strike being evident and distinguishable - is it really ? Or is that just the explanation they use to get folks to buy into it that they are adjustment marks ? As opposed to problem coins.

    Think for a minute. The thinking goes that pre-strike adjustment marks are lessened in severity as a result of the strike. But based on my experience and observations they are more than lessened, they are almost always obliterated, with only minor traces of them being left behind. Also, if a coin has its weight adjusted after striking, and then it undergoes wear, the look of the adjustment marks are greatly diminished by that wear. That is because when a coin suffers wear the metal is not worn away from the top, (at least not until it reaches VG stage) it is pushed down, squashed down, thus covering up and greatly lessening the adjustment marks. The fact that the metal is indeed pushed down instead of being worn away is confirmed by the weight of the coins being for all intents and purposes the same it was when the coin was struck.

    The point I'm getting to is that the explanation given, the thinking, that explains the look of pre-strike adjustment marks, (and yes in most cases adjustment marks were made pre-strike, but definitely not always), is pretty much identical to the look of a coin with damage that has suffered wear. So there is no way to know one from the other.

    You also have to realize that very few coins ever had their weight adjusted. Yeah, it happened from time, that is documented. But for the most part the planchets were the correct weight so they didn't get any. Then take into account how many of the few coins that did have their weight adjusted, still exist. Since the number was small to begin with, it has to be even smaller due to attrition. The end result is that there are going to be very, very, few coins with adjustment marks still in existence.

    But now think about how many we see all the time. The two things just don't jive. And that lends a great deal of credence that a lot of the coins don't have adjustment marks at all, but damage that is being called adjustment marks.
     
    GDJMSP, Jun 30, 2015
    #25 + Quote Reply
    Kirkuleez likes this.
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Yes, gold.
     
    GDJMSP, Jun 30, 2015
    #26 + Quote Reply
  8. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    To further clarify, (sometimes Doug is a little too brief), only precious metal coins did they ever try to weight adjust. Copper coins, from the very beginning of coinage, was a token coinage. This means the stated value of the coin was always higher than the metal in the coin. Therefor, there literally has almost never been a reason to worry about weight control on copper coins.

    I wonder if platinum coins in Russia ever had adjustment marks? IDK the answer, but to me the real answer is precious metals have these due to the nature of the value of the metal, non-precious metal coins do not since it did not really matter.
     
    medoraman, Jun 30, 2015
    #27 + Quote Reply
    Seattlite86 likes this.
  9. 19Lyds

    19Lyds Member of the United States of Confusion

    19Lyds, Jun 30, 2015
    #28 + Quote Reply
  10. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    After reading up on adjustment marks, I now think it should grade between VF30-35. But that's just me being critical as I always am when grading a coin.
     
    Seattlite86, Jun 30, 2015
    #29 + Quote Reply
  11. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    Thank you for expanding on Doug's answer; that was really what I was getting at. I really appreciate everyone's input. I feel much more knowledgeable on adjustment marks.
     
    Seattlite86, Jun 30, 2015
    #30 + Quote Reply
  12. mill rat41

    mill rat41 Member

    On a coin like this, does the grade on the slab really matter? Any prospective buyer is going to compare this coin to it's peers and make a judgement call. With most of the 100 or so examples well known, it isn't too difficult. Someone isn't going to blindly look at the grade on the slab, check the Redbook pricing and throw down hundreds of thousands of dollars. I imagine that buyers of a coin like this are pretty savy.
     
    mill rat41, Jul 2, 2015
    #31 + Quote Reply
    Kirkuleez likes this.
  13. Evan8

    Evan8 A Little Off Center

    All i know is that i finally found an ebay seller that has absolutely nothing i can afford. His items are incredible. Is that the same guy from legend numismatics?
     
    Evan8, Jul 2, 2015
    #32 + Quote Reply
    Seattlite86 likes this.
  14. Seattlite86

    Seattlite86 Outspoken Member

    Agreed, his lowest costing item was still over $2,000!
     
    Seattlite86, Jul 2, 2015
    #33 + Quote Reply
  15. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    Rare coin wholesalers from Irvine CA.
     
    Kirkuleez, Jul 2, 2015
    #34 + Quote Reply
  16. davidh

    davidh soloist gnomic

    It matches Photograde 35 in some aspects and 40 in others. With the extreme rarity bump I think 40 is reasonable.
     
    davidh, Jul 2, 2015
    #35 + Quote Reply
  17. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    Market Grading: A numerical grade that matches the grade at which a particular coin generally is traded in the marketplace. The grading standard used by PCGS. http://www.pcgs.com/Lingo/M
     
    eddiespin, Jul 2, 2015
    #36 + Quote Reply
  18. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Who the devil cares. Way more than I can afford.......
     
    green18, Jul 2, 2015
    #37 + Quote Reply
  19. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Make that coin a 95 and see if that coin resides in that holder. THAT is the difference between market grading and rarity bump. All flowing hairs in that condition are not traded on that "market grading" . That coin got that grade because it's a 94 versus a 95.
     
    medoraman, Jul 2, 2015
    #38 + Quote Reply
  20. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    What are you complaining at? PCGS did precisely as that definition said. Will that coin generally trade at that grade in the market for PCGS plastic? PCGS thinks so. That's all.
     
    eddiespin, Jul 2, 2015
    #39 + Quote Reply
    Seattlite86 likes this.
  21. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    So if PCGS gives it a grade, that is the end of the discussion? No one should try to learn to grade, since it won't matter anyway because they are wrong if PCGS says something else?

    Sounds like US collectors are becoming pathetic TPG lackies if that is the case. Maybe I am a dinosaur and actually give a damn about my coins and how to grade.
     
    medoraman, Jul 2, 2015
    #40 + Quote Reply
    Seattlite86 likes this.
7 more messages...
Page 2 of 3
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page