The Morgan Roll Guy...How Does He Get The Toning?

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Gents, buying coins, even graded is a gamble of sorts. I expect, all of you over 20 years old know this better than I do. And I am closer to 50.

Calculated risk that it may be worth what a grading agency or some other 3rd party says it is worth. Then there is the appeal of getting a hold of something rare. That's what the ebay Morgan roll guy is preying on and the OP was pulled in by. Bet it wont happen again to him and very sorry if he can not get his money back! I think it was quite a lot!

When I was about 9 or 10, an old guy my father new said I could go through his 10 gallon whiskey jug of pennies he had been throwing pennies into since about 1930. I made up a complete collection to date and kept going through it until to my untrained eye, I had the best collection that could be found. I had to repay him penny for penny for whatever I took out of that jug. I still have them and they are probably worth very little.

That kind of opportunity comes along but once in a blue moon. Everyone that likes history and the shiny things that are left over looks for that.

I would like to ask ebay why they are allowing someone to sell empty, or maybe fraudulent dreams. If that is what it is.

I have had dealings with ebay and paypal a lot recently. Both in trying to pay and get coins shipped where I wanted them shipped. In all cases, with time, it all works out how I want it to.

It may still work out for the OP if he keeps on them. Hope it does.

 

Also, Those same coin rolls that those coins in the listing are rolled with can be bought on Ebay, 10 rolls for under $3.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Window-T...538?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e8d812f1a

Edit:
I see 50 for $3 too...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-UNIVERSA...3&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=271890118086&rt=nc

 

I'm sure the seller has a good supply of them

 

Most certain he does!

 

It seems so, 500 for $10...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/500-UNIVERS...3&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=6&sd=400779803831&rt=nc

 

No they are being deceived. You are aware of concepts like fraud? The only reason it is tolerated in coins is that the knowledge is so specialized that only experts are fluent. The average person doesn't know and thus can't judge.

Just because there are a lot of crimes committed doesn't make it legal or acceptable. We can go round and round on this just like in the past. If you were right then con men swindling old mentally frail people would never go to jail because it is the frail elderly persons fault for believing the con man yet they do go to jail because the United States government does not subscribe to your belief of responsibility

 

I agree. So does the state of Nevada. But making your own roll crosses lines the tv guys don't. The tv guys don't actually lie. They are very enthusiastic. When the roll guy puts the roll together and then sells it he is lying about it being an original roll. While your discussion above about the definition of original is interesting it is also quite clear that making your own original roll is definately fraud. And it is clearly illegal in the state of Nevada. Feel free to read for yourself


If you say something that is a flat out lie it is illegal. Everyone puts lipstick on their pig but selling me a chicken and calling it a pig is just not legal. Period. You may have the right to your opinions but the law is not negotiable.

 

There are no laws broken. Was it a "salted" roll or rolls? Definitely, but impossible to prove. Is there an intent to deceive? Sure, but the seller has covered his tracks well with " may be" and " could be" language. Good luck proving strong suppositions in court. The seller delivered " unopened rolls" of Morgan dollars. It is impossible to prove if he put the coins in the rolls, or if someone else did-- 100 years ago. If one is looking for the seller's fingerprints, I bet he wore gloves. lol. It is a classic case of " sucker trap--". Deceptive, but impossible to prove in court. eBay doesn't see it as fraudulent, and removed the negative feedback, as the item was a theoretically unopened roll(s) of Morgan Dollars.

 

There could be a test performed on the age of the paper, but of course then you're getting into territory whereby the cost to prove the fraud, is greater than the cost of the fraud itself.

 

Sounds like it is possible to prove false after all.

 

The seller didnt say how old the rolls are. He just said he got them from a banker friend, who could of rolled them a year ago.

 

Perhaps it is because of what I've had the, ahem, "pleasure" of seeing firsthand more times than I care to remember, but the idea that anyone who makes a bad buy, or purchases from someone making questionable claims (intentional or not) can simply point the finger, cry fraud, and say "it's not MY fault" only contributes to the problem. Let me give an example: maybe five years ago I received an email from a guy asking for my opinion on two better date CC Morgans (1885 iirc) he had been offered. Once he sent me the photos, it took about two seconds to see that the fellow offering the coins had simply taken photos off the internet and sent them; while the obv photos were at least of different coins, he used the very same borrowed reverse photo, cropping and auto-correcting it to make it appear to be of a different coin. I wrote back, explained this, and advised the obvious, especially since this seller was found on craigslist and resided on the other side of the state. A few weeks later I received another email from him, rambling and complaining about being "ripped off" asking me how, or if I could somehow magically help him get his money back. Yes... he "bought" the "coins" regardless of how obvious of a scam it was, and did so because the price, had they been the genuine uncs claimed, would have been a steal; he simply couldn't help himself, and this wasn't the first time this guy, who owned only one book (the redbook), had taken this path. Now, let me ask this: do you not believe this fellow is rightfully due part of the blame for his ridiculously bad choice? I do, and think it would be hard to reasonably argue that he shouldn't bear partial responsibility for the negative (for him) yet easily avoidable outcome. The same can be said for many of the "frauds" we see here, and for good reason.

 

I'm surprised you guys are still going on about this, I've already moved on with life. Too short to cry about something I can't change. Live and learn.

 

Better if you learn then live.

 

Does't the shill bidding cause a sale charge from E-bay if the owner wins the bid ?

 

I would assume that in most cases, both parties ("buyer" and seller) simply agree to terminate the "sale".

 

Thanks Books, at my age I can't think past the word SCAM.